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Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 14

 but if you need to have multiple files simultaneously visible,
 to search, replace, cutNpaste between and change colour/font of text stretches
 [like you kokie-pen-colour paper text] all without looking down to find the
 <F?>, Ctrl ..keys, [because it's mouse (cord) driven] then no standard linux
 app. can do it  - althogh I've read that 'acme' [I think] which was inspired
 by ETH-Oberon can do it.
 Has anyone here used acme ?
------------
Have you heard about screen?
-------
Yes, apart from the fact that it crashes because AFAIK it uses some kind of
VNC-scheme, you still have to be a concert-pianist on the key-brd, to swap
between files. Altho' I probably would still use it if I didn't have ETH-Oberon,
where I work head-up. mc allows you to view, edit, delete, move, copy,
execute ..
files by just pointing at the file [who's name you don't need to
remember verbatim -
just recognise] and them activating the relevant "function".
ETH-Oberon goes further:
you don't need to "point to the function" you just "think" of the
required function
and while you're pointing [the mouse cursor] you fingers do the
required chording,
like when you're riding a bicycle and you sub-consciously feel you're falling to
the left, you correct by reflex. Whereas mc's arguments are file/Dir
IDs and must
be in the menu-list of the 2 panels; leo's-args can be anywhere visible on the
screen, in any window; and most trivial operations are 'in your
fingers reflexes'.
With normal/mc editors if I'm reading a file and I see "OCOu6n4nS_IJ",
and I want
to search for further copies of this string, I must:
1. F7
2. cutNpaste the awkard string
3. <enter>

For Leo, search & replace aren't trivial operations 'in your fingers reflexes':
they have buttons on the window-frame-header. So you do:
1. 'mouse-wipe-the-visible-anywhere-string'
2. 'cord' <the search-button-label-on the required window frame>

Few people seem to have analysed that the secret of Norton Commander
is the visual
facility.  Leo just goes one step further.

!! let me stop now !!





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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 13 (chris glur)
   2. Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12 (chris glur)
   3. Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12 (Yury V. Zaytsev)
   4. Re: mc in fedora 10 (Yury V. Zaytsev)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:31:19 +0300
From: chris glur <crglur gmail com>
To: mc gnome org
Subject: Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 13
Message-ID:
      <49dfd7e20911180731x3525477br5b2dca314fe5599f mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1


Not everyone in the world has a high speed connection, after all, and in
some circumstances installations may be done where there is NO connection.

------
Thanks for pointing that out.
I've never had/done an install via net.
--------
The next step to really magnify the power of mc is to help multi-task use:
if you take a data-centric view [vs. an applications view, which I guess is
what's led to the monster browsers that do, mail & news & ..] then you'd
have
a dozen mc/s open to handle your current projects.  So as stuff arrives for
the
various projects, you'd want to be able to switch to the correct mc of the
dozen
or more.    Eg. you'd want to view a menu: like the <Ctl |> menu shows you
'relevant dirs' for one mc, you want to see relevant mc/s the current login.
I've got a little script, which uses lsof [list open files] to find all of
the
active panels [the inactive half are unknown] and ps <something>, to map the
mc-dit to a (Desktop, Console) pair.  So if an idea or something from the
net
arrives for OpenMoko, when I key "JS", I see that the menu contains:
  2,4 = mnt/cdrom/OLPC/OpenMoko
and possibly other mc-dirs, open for  mnt/cdrom/OLPC/OpenMoko.
Which tells me to switch to Desktop 2, consol 4.
Except that really I have to first key "P" to see
  ---------> |2|3|1|2a|4|3a|
which tells me that the 2nd desktop is number 3.
And I had to construct this P-mapping manually by examining the pstree.
I would have expected other heavy-duty mc uses to have fixed this problem ?
Currently I've got 27 mcs open.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:07:58 +0300
From: chris glur <crglur gmail com>
To: mc gnome org
Subject: Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12
Message-ID:
      <49dfd7e20911182007t3343160drc57b472ef047dc2d mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

chris glur wrote:

What made me immediately feel strange/negative towards Debian, is
that it didn't install mc & gpm by default.


MK wrote:

I think if you look around you will find MOST current distros
do not install mc by default, because MOST linux users do not
use it.  This was less true 5-10 years ago.  I installed Fedora
10-64 in January and (at least at that time) there was not
even an .rpm package available -- I had to build from source,
which I tend to do anyway, so big deal.


So they boot straight into X.
Can they chose one out of several X-systems, from the monster DVDs,
to avoid having to see VTs ?


Most users do not like console apps and do not need gpm either.


You've been talking about compiling kernels ..etc. which I'd never want to
do.
I compiled some linux stuff once and was shocked by the big-message list and
time it took. The first time C-users compile ETH-Oberon they think its not
working, because it just writes something like:
 "Compiled  News.Obj   1347253 bytes"   and stops!
Because its done.

So can you avoid using non-X when compiling a different X or a kernel ?

The main reason why I have to use Oberon, which fortunately can run on linux
[as well as native] is to have a proper heads-up editor. mc's editor is nice
for simple jobs, but if you need to have multiple files simultaneously
visible,
to search, replace, cutNpaste between and change colour/font of text
stretches
[like you kokie-pen-colour paper text] all without looking down to find the
<F?>, Ctrl ..keys, [because it's mouse (cord) driven] then no standard linux
app. can do it  - althogh I've read that 'acme' [I think] which was inspired
by ETH-Oberon can do it.
Has anyone here used acme ?
BTW, I previously told how we need a self-updating menu system to know which
desktop/console has got the mc which is at or near the dir related to
eg. "acme",
so that I can check the correct name/spelling. So now I'll have to
call 2 scripts
which will tell me which of the 24 currently open mc/s to switch to.
I'm writing this with the mc-editor [which I'll paste to the the
crappy web-based
gmailer, which I use for mail-lists which must live after/if I change
my crappy ISP,
which has a proper pop-emailer, because if I try to set up gmail pop,
something may
go wrong with the existing ...like once before].  And Ctrl O allows me
to see the
24 mc's dirs; and none is at/near <acme>, so [I must resist opening another
mc]
I could change one of the "probably not needed soon dirs" [like in the
'Ctl |' menu]
or I can use the other half/panel of some existing mc, and if I don't
switch back
after using it the 24-mc-menu will be changed. OK so I found it & I'll cut:
"The design of the interface was
   influenced  by Oberon. It is different from other editing environments
   in  that  it  acts  as  a 9P server. A distinctive element of the user
   interface is mouse chording."

How can people possibly do this type of 'micro-management' without mc ?!
I guess they don't.  They just use what the marketers feed them.
That's why usenet which was designed by engineers and not owned by anyone,
has been replaced by facebook ..etc. which the kiddies are apparently all
using.
And they have become dependant on the owners/controllers of the
"better experience"
generating devices.

Ahmen!


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:36:30 +0100
From: "Yury V. Zaytsev" <yury shurup com>
To: mc gnome org
Subject: Re: Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12
Message-ID: <1258619790 6911 1 camel mypride>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 07:07 +0300, chris glur wrote:


The first time C-users compile ETH-Oberon they think its not working,
 because it just writes something like:  "Compiled  News.Obj   1347253
 bytes"   and stops! Because its done.


Which is not surprising at all, considering the design of this language.


How can people possibly do this type of 'micro-management' without mc
 ?! I guess they don't.  They just use what the marketers feed them.


Have you heard about screen?

--
Sincerely yours,
Yury V. Zaytsev



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:03:17 +0100
From: "Yury V. Zaytsev" <yury shurup com>
To: MK <halfcountplus intergate com>
Cc: mc gnome org
Subject: Re: mc in fedora 10
Message-ID: <1258624997 6911 7 camel mypride>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 21:58 -0500, MK wrote:


 No, I've done the "linux from scratch" thing, actually, which means
 building a new glibc, bootstrap-rebuilding gcc, etc, then every other
 single library after that.


I officially declare myself defeated.

Not only we are coming from different planets, but also have different
concepts about time ;-) I just can't afford pulling and rebuilding the
dependencies manually while this can be easily done by a package
manager.

--
Sincerely yours,
Yury V. Zaytsev



------------------------------

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End of Mc Digest, Vol 67, Issue 14
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