Re: Administrativia

[Peter Nugent <Peter Nugent Sun COM>]

Hi Behdad
pls see my replies below

thx
Peter


Behdad Esfahbod ha scritto:
> Hi Peter,
>
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Peter Nugent wrote:
>
>
> > 1. you need to ensure that CLDR data has been converted faithfully from
> > LDML to whatever format you are proposing to use. You will probably need
> > to do the folliwng :
> > - write a tool to convert LDML -> new format
> > - write tool to convert new format back to LDML
> > - write a tool to compare the 2 LFML files to ensure no difference.
>
>
> Nothing stops us from borrowing code from ICU.  For now, Bruno is
> busy with the POSIX layer and he definitely is on the right
> track.  Why don't you get started by isolating the CLDR handling
> code from ICU?
I'm happy to help uot but right now and for the next couple of weeks I 
have no bandwidth to spend time on this.

> > 2. how are you going to implement collations ? this is no easy task.
> > OpenOffice has its own locale data but uses ICU for collations. There's
> > probably a good reason for this.
>
>
> It's already done in glibc.  We'll borrow that.
ok, so in otherwords you are going to use the 30 year old posix 
LC_COLLATE format for representing collations (and will need a tool to 
do the conversion) but some ICU like formats for some other data. I'm 
not particularly keen on this hybrid approach.

> > 3. how long will it take to develop this idea into a stable working
> > library ?
>
>
> To be honest, I would say at least two years.  Just looking at
> the experience of hal and cairo that each took three years.
yes I think this is a realistic estimate. All the more reason to make 
sure that app owners have bought into this new library before spending a 
lot of time on it.
so how many developers are signed up to contribute right now ?

> > ICU exist today and works just fine on solaris and is widely used.
>
>
> Yes, but you see, nobody uses ICU, and it's no easy to change.
> That's the problem we want to solve, and if ICU is that good at
> the code level, we definitely borrow the code.  Not?
hmm, not sure I agree with this. Solaris has been shipping with ICU for 
a long time, OpenOffice uses it as do Apple and lots of other people so 
it can't be that bad ! If you mean no one in GNOME uses it then sure I 
agree.
As to whether ICU is easy to change or not well that's a matter of 
engaging with the ICU people to bring about change which is a comunity 
effort just as this one is !


> behdad
>
>
>
> > just my 2 cents worth
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > Bruno Haible ha scritto:
> >
> > > As a result of last week's discussions, it's becoming clear to me that
> > >
> > >  - gettext's glocale is a good starting point for this project. The
> > >    LGPL license is apparently OK. There's a large overlap of functionality.
> > >    And the architecture (runtime + a cooker) fits as well.
> > >
> > >  - The project - with the support for CLDR and the setter APIs - is
> > >    larger than what I had initially thought. As a result, I'm reconsidering
> > >    the infrastructure.
> > >
> > > * Who volunteers to contribute code or documentation to the project?
> > >
> > > * Can it be a GNU project or part of a GNU gettext?
> > >
> > >  I would very much like it to be a GNU project, so that GNU gettext can
> > >  use it. (msggrep for example is hardly usable, because we don't have
> > >  a gl_regex function yet. glocale will fix this.)
> > >
> > >  When it is part of GNU gettext, all contributors need to sign papers
> > >  giving the FSF the copyright over their contribution. If it's a separate
> > >  project, the contributors can keep their copyrights, but it's harder for
> > >  the project to play a central role in GNU.
> > >
> > > * Should it be part of GNU gettext or separate?
> > >
> > >  Should it have a distribution directory, a web site etc. of its own?
> > >
> > >  The link between glocale and gettext is quite weak: just the 4 functions
> > >  from glocale/libintl.h. But:
> > >
> > >  If it's part of GNU gettext, it will find its way into Linux distributions
> > >  rather easily. Otherwise, it will be GNOME which "drags" it into the distros.
> > >
> > >  If it's part of GNU gettext, the sharing of some libintl files and
> > >  other infrastructure is easier.
> > >
> > >  It it's part of GNU gettext, it will be easier to install on non-glibc
> > >  systems. If it's separate, people will need to build and install
> > >  1. gettext (for the tools), 2. glocale (for libglocale), 3. gettext again
> > >  (so that msggrep works better).
> > >
> > >  What's your opinion?
> > >
> > > * What shall be the name of the library? Is "glocale" OK with everyone?
> > >
> > > Bruno
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > locale-list mailing list
> > > locale-list gnome org
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/locale-list
>
> --behdad
> http://behdad.org/
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