Re: gtk-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 17

["hongky gump" <hongkyx tom com>]

in my opinion, i feel the responsiveness of GTK+ apps too.

i have some projects done with MFC in WIN32, later, i rebulid it with 
GTK+ in WIN32. But i found the case, it's slow and application main frame twinkling.
and if you installed the gaim, you can push the scrolled window, it's so delay and slow.

i have not designed GUI programs in Linux, so maybe it's some problem in WIN32.

thanks
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gtk-list-request gnome org>
To: <gtk-list gnome org>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: gtk-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 17


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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Source compiling for gtk+ 2.2 and 2.4 (Keith Sharp)
>    2. timer (Aaron Yang)
>    3. Re: timer (H McCurdy)
>    4. Building errors continuing... (muadib in gr)
>    5. Why gtk+ application are so slow (Victor Nazarov)
>    6. Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow (Sven Neumann)
>    7. Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow (Thomas Coppi)
>    8. Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow  (Paul Davis)
>    9. Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow (Victor Nazarov)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 17:40:42 +0000
> From: Keith Sharp <kms passback co uk>
> Subject: Re: Source compiling for gtk+ 2.2 and 2.4
> To: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <1102786843 4056 0 camel animal>
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> On Sat, 2004-12-11 at 14:42 +0100, antongiulio wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > in my little app I have used 'gtkcombobox' widget. In a system with gtk+ 2.4.x installed, it works, but in system with gtk+ =< 2.2 I got errors on compiling.
> > 
> > Since v2.4 GtkComboBox has replaced 'deprecated' GtkOptionMenu. Is there a way to compile both version of gtk+ library?
> > 
> > I thought to use:
> > 
> > #ifdef any_macro_for_gtk_version
> > gtkcombobox
> > #else
> > gtkoptionmenu
> > #endif
> > 
> > Could be it good? Eventually, what is right macro to use?
> 
> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/gtk-Feature-Test-Macros.html
> 
> Keith.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:35:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: Aaron Yang <porsche1904 yahoo com>
> Subject: timer
> To: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <20041212003517 39136 qmail web42204 mail yahoo com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> hi everyone,
> 
>   if I created a button that waits for the user to
> click, is it possible to have a timer that can
> constantly send "clicks" to the button without the
> user  pressing the mouse?
>   if this is possible, can anyone show me how?
> 
> thanks
> 
> regards,
> aaron yang
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________ 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:36:51 -0800 (PST)
> From: H McCurdy <hmccurdy yahoo com>
> Subject: Re: timer
> To: Aaron Yang <porsche1904 yahoo com>, gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <20041212033651 54838 qmail web54304 mail yahoo com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I don't know how to do that.
> 
> But why don't you just use the Alarm Clock signal and
> have its handler call the same function(s) that the
> button's click event handler calls?
> 
> 
> --- Aaron Yang <porsche1904 yahoo com> wrote:
> 
> > hi everyone,
> > 
> >   if I created a button that waits for the user to
> > click, is it possible to have a timer that can
> > constantly send "clicks" to the button without the
> > user  pressing the mouse?
> >   if this is possible, can anyone show me how?
> > 
> > thanks
> > 
> > regards,
> > aaron yang
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________ 
> > Do you Yahoo!? 
> > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
> > less. 
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> > _______________________________________________
> > gtk-list mailing list
> > gtk-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________ 
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> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 05:53:08 +0200
> From: <muadib in gr>
> Subject: Building errors continuing...
> To: <gtk-list gnome org>
> Message-ID: <99f401c4dffe$179207f0$0a05030a internal ramnet gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"
> 
> >Greetings,
> > I got a Tarball of GTK+-2.4.9 and I have the following problem compiling it: While ./configure returns with no errors, 'make' at the enc >returns the following: 
> >
> >failed to load "./stock_add_16.png": Couldn't recognize the image file format for file './stock_add_16.png'
> >make[3]: *** [gtkstockpixbufs.h] Error 1
> >make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/nang/gtk+-2.4.9/gtk/stock-icons'
> >make[2]: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
> >make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/nang/gtk+-2.4.9/gtk'
> >make[1]: *** [install] Error 2
> >make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/nang/gtk+-2.4.9/gtk'
> >make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
> >I run on Debian, kernel 2.4.27, Duron at 700MHz, 384Mb RAM.
> The PNG picture seems to be ok, Olexiy. I can't understand what's wrong. Could it possibly be the PNG libs or something like that?
> 
> >Thanks!
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:50:32 +0300
> From: Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru>
> Subject: Why gtk+ application are so slow
> To: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <41BC3E98 5030206 comtv ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed
> 
> I'm using Debian every day... And I've been trying to find why I prefer 
> MS Widows GUI over Gnome. Now I've undesrtood. It's responsiveness. So I 
> know that gtk+ is superior over Win32 becouse of it's portabillity and 
> the most important is the ease of programming with it. But Gnome and GTK 
> applications are considerably slower than Win32 applications. The time 
> betwean the execution of application and the creation of the 
> application's main window is very long... So I'd like to hear some 
> opinions why is it so? I don't like to buy new, /modern/ computer, I 
> want Gnome to work as fast as Windows 2000 does...
> 
> Here is my opinion: I think  the main problem is that gtk prefer 
> run-time over compile time... So programmer binds callbacks on signals 
> at run time... In win32 the compiler does it when compils WinProc 
> functions switch statement... There are many other such examples. But I 
> like gtk API and I don't whant to use clumsy Win32 API. IMHO it's not a 
> good idea to separate application code from the description of user 
> interface (separated XML file for example). So I suggest to write a 
> preprocessor for the gtk interface, something like yacc... So different 
> statements of the preprocessed language will generate an array that will 
> represents a whole window with all the widgets properly initialized, 
> only some small subset of data, depending on the execution environment 
> will be initialized at run-time. The task of the main function will only 
> initialize minimum fields of array representing the window, point some 
> gtk function to this array and run gtk_main... What do you think about 
> this proposal?
> 
> --
> vir
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:00:27 +0100
> From: Sven Neumann <sven gimp org>
> Subject: Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow
> To: Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru>
> Cc: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <87mzwj62h0 fsf gimp org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru> writes:
> 
> > I'm using Debian every day... And I've been trying to find why I
> > prefer MS Widows GUI over Gnome. Now I've undesrtood. It's
> > responsiveness. So I know that gtk+ is superior over Win32 becouse of
> > it's portabillity and the most important is the ease of programming
> > with it. But Gnome and GTK applications are considerably slower than
> > Win32 applications. The time betwean the execution of application and
> > the creation of the application's main window is very long... So I'd
> > like to hear some opinions why is it so? I don't like to buy new,
> > /modern/ computer, I want Gnome to work as fast as Windows 2000
> > does...
> 
> Can you give some numbers please? I don't see any noticeable delay
> when starting a GTK+ application. So I suspect that something is wrong
> with your setup. There are several things that could be wrong. Your
> font cache could be missing or broken, you might have an extended
> input device configured which isn't available (this causes a long
> timeout due to a bug in X11).
> 
> > Here is my opinion: I think the main problem is that gtk prefer
> > run-time over compile time... So programmer binds callbacks on
> > signals at run time... In win32 the compiler does it when compils
> > WinProc functions switch statement... There are many other such
> > examples. But I like gtk API and I don't whant to use clumsy Win32
> > API. IMHO it's not a good idea to separate application code from the
> > description of user interface (separated XML file for example). So I
> > suggest to write a preprocessor for the gtk interface, something
> > like yacc... So different statements of the preprocessed language
> > will generate an array that will represents a whole window with all
> > the widgets properly initialized, only some small subset of data,
> > depending on the execution environment will be initialized at
> > run-time. The task of the main function will only initialize minimum
> > fields of array representing the window, point some gtk function to
> > this array and run gtk_main... What do you think about this
> > proposal?
> 
> I don't believe that this would gain any significant (noticeable)
> improvement. But I am willing to change my mind if you can come up
> with some serious profiling data for realworld applications that shows
> that GObject signal marshalling is a major bottleneck.
> 
> 
> Sven
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 06:16:11 -0800
> From: Thomas Coppi <thisnukes4u gmail com>
> Subject: Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow
> To: Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru>
> Cc: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <5e04a4c604121206163ad43d6f mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> I don't know about others, but when I run gtk+ apps on windows, they
> usually run at either the same speed or slightly faster than native
> windows mfc applications.  The only time they slow down is during
> heavy network access for some reason, but otherwise they run quite
> well for being on windows, which is not the native platform for gtk+.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:50:32 +0300, Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru> wrote:
> > I'm using Debian every day... And I've been trying to find why I prefer
> > MS Widows GUI over Gnome. Now I've undesrtood. It's responsiveness. So I
> > know that gtk+ is superior over Win32 becouse of it's portabillity and
> > the most important is the ease of programming with it. But Gnome and GTK
> > applications are considerably slower than Win32 applications. The time
> > betwean the execution of application and the creation of the
> > application's main window is very long... So I'd like to hear some
> > opinions why is it so? I don't like to buy new, /modern/ computer, I
> > want Gnome to work as fast as Windows 2000 does...
> > 
> > Here is my opinion: I think  the main problem is that gtk prefer
> > run-time over compile time... So programmer binds callbacks on signals
> > at run time... In win32 the compiler does it when compils WinProc
> > functions switch statement... There are many other such examples. But I
> > like gtk API and I don't whant to use clumsy Win32 API. IMHO it's not a
> > good idea to separate application code from the description of user
> > interface (separated XML file for example). So I suggest to write a
> > preprocessor for the gtk interface, something like yacc... So different
> > statements of the preprocessed language will generate an array that will
> > represents a whole window with all the widgets properly initialized,
> > only some small subset of data, depending on the execution environment
> > will be initialized at run-time. The task of the main function will only
> > initialize minimum fields of array representing the window, point some
> > gtk function to this array and run gtk_main... What do you think about
> > this proposal?
> > 
> > --
> > vir
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > gtk-list mailing list
> > gtk-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://thisnukes4u.net
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 09:28:27 -0500
> From: Paul Davis <paul linuxaudiosystems com>
> Subject: Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow 
> To: Sven Neumann <sven gimp org>
> Cc: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <200412121428 iBCESRL6016190 localhost localdomain>
> 
> >> I'm using Debian every day... And I've been trying to find why I
> >> prefer MS Widows GUI over Gnome. Now I've undesrtood. It's
> >> responsiveness. So I know that gtk+ is superior over Win32 becouse of
> >> it's portabillity and the most important is the ease of programming
> >> with it. But Gnome and GTK applications are considerably slower than
> >> Win32 applications. The time betwean the execution of application and
> >> the creation of the application's main window is very long... So I'd
> >> like to hear some opinions why is it so? I don't like to buy new,
> >> /modern/ computer, I want Gnome to work as fast as Windows 2000
> >> does...
> >
> >Can you give some numbers please? I don't see any noticeable delay
> >when starting a GTK+ application. So I suspect that something is wrong
> >with your setup. There are several things that could be wrong. Your
> >font cache could be missing or broken, you might have an extended
> >input device configured which isn't available (this causes a long
> >timeout due to a bug in X11).
> 
> 100% echoed. I have never seen GTK+ as "slow", and in fact my
> machines, which are dominated by GTK applications, always seem faster
> to me than Windows systems (even with faster hardware), and marginally
> snappier than some Qt/KDE apps running on the same hardware.
> 
> Before you make such vast and overwhelming suggestions ("runtime ->
> compile time binding" is very, very far from a trivial change
> in the entire design of GTK), please come up with some hard
> numbers. Nothing could possibly justify the work required to make such
> a change without a set of well-measured comparisons of similar
> application code that show the GTK implementation to be fundamentally
> slowed by signal marshalling. 
> 
> And speaking personally, I don't believe that any measurements you
> could make will show such a thing, but I'm willing to keep an open
> mind.
> 
> --p
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:50:49 +0300
> From: Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru>
> Subject: Re: Why gtk+ application are so slow
> To: Sven Neumann <sven gimp org>
> Cc: gtk-list gnome org
> Message-ID: <41BC68D9 3010607 comtv ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Sven Neumann wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >Victor Nazarov <vir comtv ru> writes:
> >
> >  
> >
> >Can you give some numbers please? I don't see any noticeable delay
> >when starting a GTK+ application. So I suspect that something is wrong
> >with your setup. There are several things that could be wrong. Your
> >font cache could be missing or broken, you might have an extended
> >input device configured which isn't available (this causes a long
> >timeout due to a bug in X11).
> >
> >  
> >
> I have only ps/2 keyboard and usb mouse. Machine is Pentium III 
> Copermine 533 MHz with 384 MB RAM runing Linux kernel v 2.4.26...
> 
> >I don't believe that this would gain any significant (noticeable)
> >improvement. But I am willing to change my mind if you can come up
> >with some serious profiling data for realworld applications that shows
> >that GObject signal marshalling is a major bottleneck.
> >
> >  
> >
> I havn't said that GObject signal marshalling is a major bottleneck. 
> I've said about overal run-time design of gtk...
> I have the following manual mesurments, wich are very inaccurate...
> It's near 3 seconds betwean clicking on gnome-terminal launcher and the 
> appearance of the window...
> It's near 5 second to start mozilla-thunderbird...
> Easy-tag (gtk1.2 application) starts very quickly --- not noticable...
> 
> What can I do to improve it?
> 
> --
> vir
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gtk-list mailing list
> gtk-list gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
> 
> 
> End of gtk-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 17
> ***************************************
>