Re: [gtk-list] Re: Resizing widgets with a mouse [OT]

["Steven M. Campbell" <SCampbell SequoiaNet com>]

Trog wrote:

> On 26-Feb-2000 Emmanuel DELOGET wrote:
> > From: Trog <trog@gtk.org>
> >>
> >> I guess you're asking 'is there a Windows like MDI interface for
> >> GTK+'.
> >>
> >> The short answer is no. MDI (the MS way) is considered evil UI
> >> design.
> >>
> >> There are alternatives within GTK:
> >>  o Multiple top-level windows
> >>  o GtkNotebook
> >>  o GtkPaned
> >>
> >> -tony
> >>
> >
> >     Hi Tony.
> >
> >     Well... There are some cases where such an Evil Design may
> > offer
> >     good services (for ex., cut/copy/paste is easier for the user
> > since
> >     he can see both MDI windows at the same type).
>
> May be, but it is still a bad UI. And your cut/copy/paste example
> doesn't hold water. I can see multiple top-level windows at the same
> time.
>
> >     And you can find drawbacks in your proposed alternatives :
> >
> >         * Multiple toplevel windows : since the WM uses the same
> > acclerator
> >         key to run through the list of all your windows, you can't
> > really
> >         switch from a window to the other by using the keybord. If
> > the
> >         WM proposes a Windows-like taskbar, you'll have to deal
> > with
> >         a *lot* of window representation.
>
> I don't understand what you mean when you say "you can't really
> switch from a window to the other by using the keybord". Thats what
> the WM accelerator keys are for (WM dependent though, of course).
>
> >
> >         * GtkNotebook : you only see a single view at one time
> >
> >         * GtkPaned : all the windows lies on the same plane - they
> > don't
> >         overlapp, so the more you add views, the smaller they will
> > be
> >
> >     while I actually like the GtkNotebook implementation of MDI, it
> > could
> >     be interesting to have a module-based WiW MDI implemetation.
>
> Don't forget you can use these both in combination with one another
> and with other widgets (such as lists) to build a UI that meets the
> requirements of the application. There is no single solution, just do
> the UI design right for your application.
>
> >
> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 11:07:15PM -0500, Steven M. Campbell
> >> wrote:
> >> > How does one go about resizing widgets with the mouse?
> >> >
> >> > I have a window with a fixed-layout widget (I'm assuming this is
> >> > a good start) with several
> >> > framed widgets each containing a scrolled window.   I'd like the
> >> > user to be able to treat
> >> > these frame widgets (or whatever widget I need wrap the whole
> >> > thing in) to work same way
> >> > windows do, that is, drag a corner to resize, drag the title to
> >> > move (or whatever close
> >> > equivalent there may be).  I've 'manually' resized them using
> >> > gtk_container_set_usize and all
> >> > works well but I'm starting starting to feel like Rube Goldberg
> >> > thinking through ways to get
> >> > the mouse interaction working.  Is there an easy way to do this
> >> > or had I start rereading the
> >> > "Writing a GTK Widget" chapter?  ;-)
> >> >
> >
> >     The better way to do this is probably to write a small WM
> > outline (a
> >     GtkWiWContainer) that will be able to handle any number of
> > GtkWiWWindow.
> >     When you add a child window in the parent container, the parent
> > of the newly
> >     created X Window is the X Window of the container. Since the
> >     GtkWiWWindow is a container too (well... it really looks lie a
> > GtkWindow in
> >     fact) it will gracefully handle evey added any kind of widgets.
> >
> >     If you add a title bar and a resize zone that is able to send
> > signals to
> >     the the GtkWiWContainer, you should be able to support resize,
> > move and
> >     overlapping of the windows without needing a fixed layout
> > container.
> >
>
> Why can't you do this by using multiple top-level windows and
> managing the size/position of those windows within the deskyop area?
>
> -tony
>
> ---
> E-Mail: trog@gtk.org
> There is no distinction between any AI program and some existent game.
>
> Go Bezerk! http://www.gtk.org/~trog
>
> --
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Here's a simple example (and my specific one), a front end to a mud game.
This includes multiple text windows to which the user may direct various
messages, sized pixmaps (perhaps a body health diagram, a compass, etc),
menubar for controls and lots of popup windows to individual configs.  Each
user's character is unique in needs and, therefore, no common screen layout is
acceptable. Now I could place all these in seperate top level windows but I'm
stuck with whatever frames the user's theme allows, these waste valuable
desktop space.  I could create icons from the pixmaps and avoid the large
window borders on the graphicals but now am faced with forcing the theme's
handling of icons (if they get stuck into an icon box or hidden then this
won't work).   I could force the user into a particular theme and create the
borders I want, of course, said borders are probably useless for common use
(too thin, lack of buttons, etc). But let's assume I successfully do all these
things.  In the end what I have is a program that doesn't match the elegance
of it's windows counterpart,  is this even remotely acceptable to you to have
folks say "yeah, it's cute but you can't <list of stuff goes here>".  While
I agree the symetical layout of widgets is much cleaner I also put forth there
are times when it is proper to allow the user to control the exact position
and size of their widgets.  And since I'm clogging the list more with this
message:  In reference to the first reply "I guess you're looking for the
Windows MDI"... I don't do windows, never have, never will :-)   I've
programmed under Unix and Mainframes for over 25 years. In fact, the only
thing I boot MS up is for is the Front End to this particular mud which s only
available via MS, I'm changing that as best I can and I really want to create
something more flexible than the original while maintaining the look and feel
of the original thereby, once again, proving we're on the superiour platform.

   Cheers,
       Steve

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