Re: KDE Gnome Qt gtk--

[Jim Pick <jim jimpick com>]

Carsten Kind <kind@yang.thch.uni-bonn.de> writes:

> Hi all,
> 
> I've just compared different developments (see subject).
> This comparison results in some conclusions and suggestions:
> 
> conclusions:
> 1. The KDE-Desktop is the most advanced desktop for Linux.

At this point, I'll give you that.

> 2. The difference between Gnome and KDE is simply avoiding Qt or not, the goal
>    is the same.

They are very similar in that they are both oriented towards producing
desktop "environments".

The goals do differ in many details of course:

- Gnome aims to build a completely "free" environment with rather
  harsher criteria on freeness.  It's a religious thing.

- KDE is more oriented towards quick results.  That's good, because now there
  is a fairly well integrated desktop for Linux.  Gnome has to do more from
  scratch, and is going to come up with something completely different -
  but it will take some time.

- Gnome is slightly more oriented towards being a hardcore hacker
  environment (with a softer learning curve)

- KDE is more of a Windows 95 replacement.  Which is good.  95% of the
  people out there don't use Linux - but should - now that KDE is almost
  available.

- KDE is primarily C++.  Gnome is going to try to be multi-lingual (that's
  why CORBA is so interesting to us).  Of course, that will be extra work.
  But it's a far more advanced approach to building complex systems.

- KDE is oriented towards have a complete "look and feel", with their own
  window manager, and their own versions of most applications.

- Gnome, on the other hand, won't have a window manager.  It will work
  with existing ones (including kwm), and hopefully support "Themes" (with
  the help of Raster).  I'd like to see Gnome support integrated into
  existing apps (such as emacs) without forking off a separate development.

> 3. Qt is the best available graphical Toolkit

Are you sure?

> 4. gtk specially gtk-- is the closest completly free Toolkit to Qt.

Probably.  What about wxwindows?  V?

> 5. The arguments of KDE-folks and Gnome-folks in spite of librarieschoosing
>    is reasonable.

Depends how religious you are.

> suggestions:

> 1. What do the KDE-developers think about converting their apps to gtk--?

I'll leave that for the KDE guys to answer.

> 2. What do gtk-developers think about getting closer to Qt?

That's the advantage of Gtk - we can modify it to do that.  I don't know
anything about Qt however.  Perhaps a Qt compatibility layer could be
built on Gtk--? 

> 3. What do Gnome-developers think about avoiding multiple code with KDE and
>    support their work ( or reverse KDE-folks help Gnome) ?

I'm all for it.
 
> What would happen?
> 1. The discussion if Qt is free or not is obsolete.( I think it's free enough,
>    but that's a different point)

Qt isn't free enough, IMHO.  But let's not go there.  It's been argued
to death.  I'm not changing my stance.

> 2. KDE will be established as standard desktop in the world of Linux.

Not without the support of the FSF, Debian and Red Hat.  Sorry.  A lot of
bridges have been burnt.  It's a religious thing, again.

> 3. Other applications  orginally not written for KDE could get KDE apps,
>    because other widget-sets could be emulated by the 'kde-toolkit' gtk.

Maybe a "KDE-Look" theme could be implemented in Gtk.  I think Raster
is interested in doing this.  It would look good when running inside
kwm.  Java does a similar thing with their new Swing toolkit.

> This are all crazy ideas, but I would like to know what do 
> you think about them.

Pretty good.  But you underestimate the extent of some people's
distaste (speaking for myself) of KDE's decision to build on top of a
non-free toolkit.  From the start, KDE didn't get the support of the
hackers who like coding at all levels, close to the hardware, and at
high level of abstractions.  They're all coding for Gnome now.  :-)

> A friend of free software and KDE
> Carsten

No hard feelings.  :-)

Cheers,

 - Jim 

(A Gnome supporter)

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