Re: Steps to get to GTK+ 3.0

["Felipe Contreras" <felipe contreras gmail com>]

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Yevgen Muntyan <muntyan tamu edu> wrote:
>
> On Jun 5, 2008, at 14:44 , Johan Dahlin wrote:
>
>> Yevgen Muntyan wrote:
>> [..]
>>> Say, this Gtk-3.0 idea sucks. It brings nothing to application
>>> developers, yet application developers will be effectively forced
>>> to migrate to avoid problems. You are doing a disservice to
>>> application developers with this. It's a road to 4.0? Give me
>>> a break, canvas can be done now, and Undo in text widget doesn't
>>> need disabled deprecated API either. Thing is, nobody wants to
>>> do boring stuff, everybody wants to do exciting new stuff. Like
>>> writing a new programming language or mangling structure member
>>> names.
>>> Now what, do I get kicked out off the list? (Well, you can't
>>> do that)
>>
>> Right, 3.0 will bring very little, if nothing to developers in
>> short term.
>>
>> As it has been brought up on this list many times. There are really
>> no alternatives to making this change in process. We have to do
>> this, or Gtk+ will die slowly and become irrelevant.
>>
>> Some major features discussed are not depending on the 3.0 release
>> to be done. But Canvas is one of them. You might want to do an
>> attempt to violently push in a canvas into Gtk sure, but what we're
>> really aiming at is
>> something Clutter like which would give you proper integration.
>
>
> This was discussed million times already, so let me address
> just one thing: "Violently push". A graphics toolkit needs
> a canvas like it needs a text widget. Uber-cool hardware
> accelerated something is cool but is very much optional.
> Applications don't need clutter. Even gnome canvas put into
> gtk would be a major feature. It'd get bug fixes and new
> features, you know, it'd become a decent canvas even if not
> something you could use for Twitter-3000.
>
> So yes, if you aim at something Clutter like then you
> certainly need this 3.0 thing. *If* what you need is
> "Clutter like" instead of "canvas widget".
>
>
>> And that cannot be solved without breaking all widgets in various
>> interesting ways.
>>
>> You just need to remember, nobody is forcing you to use Gtk+ 3.0 or
>> even Gtk+ at all.
>
>
> Yeah. I am not forced to use Gtk. This is the problem: one
> may not be negative at all. If you don't like something then
> you are a troll or something like that. But I dare to think
> that by contributing to Gtk I earned the right to have my
> opinion. To have it and be able to express it, nothing more.
> I don't expect Gtk developers to agree with me, not at all,
> that's optional. I am not some Qt fan boy who bitches about
> how Gtk sucks, you see. Don't feed me this "nobody is forcing
> you to use Gtk+ at all" shit please.
>
> Anyway, sorry for bringing disorder into your exciting
> world of cool features and amazing ideas, I will try hard
> to avoid posting stuff like this.
> I remember in good old days yosh would kick out off IRC
> anyone who disagreed with him. What now, you want to
> continue the tradition folks?
>
> behdad and bkor, they will clean up your mailing list in
> no time!

I've been into this ant-establishment stuff before; you'll better
fork, or accept the painfully slow progress, and work together.

People don't change. Discussing things that Won't Change only pisses people.

That's my opinion based on my experience.

Best regards.

-- 
Felipe Contreras