Re: Another try to get a response

["Andreas J. Guelzow" <aguelzow math concordia ab ca>]

On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 09:34 -0800, George Dell wrote:
>  
> Hello Adrian,
>
> Thank you for engaging me on this issue.  While I am a deep believer
> in “freedom” as you mention it – I also need to be able to have people
> (who understand none of the technospeak and specialized words), able
> to get to an installed usable version.  Even your answer leaves my
> head swimming. 

Installing gnumeric is usually trivial and you don't even need to go to
the gnumeric web site.

If you are using Debian you just select that program like any other
package for installation (using the synaptic pacakge manager accessible
via System->Administration), similarly in Ubuntu or any other modern
operating system.

(Considering your question I suppose you are using MS Windows. In that
case you chose an operating system that is designed to avoid having
competitors software installed easily. I suggest you get another
operating system.)

Andreas 
 
>  
>
>  In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited, but
> unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate
> technospeak problem.  Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing
> now.  It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but
> nowhere to just Get Gnumeric.  
>
>
> The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user should 
> obtain after clicking the button.
>
> I agree with this.
>
> Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user
> doing 
> the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop
> environments, 
> we would have installable artifacts since those users have been
> trained 
> to look for such bundles. 
>
> Perhaps we could do something for the most common of the desktops.
> E.g., Microsoft Windows.  
>
> I do not know what a closed desktop environment is, nor an installable
> artifact.  In particular, my students are simply desktop and laptop
> users, who have not had any training “to look for such bundles.” I do
> not know what a bundle is nor what it may refer to.
>
>  
>
> For the open desktop systems, user 
> expectations are different---most get their software from their 
> installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to
> system, 
> with no common "install gnumeric" command.
>
> I assume when you say open desktop systems, you are referring to
> something like linux.  
>
> I do not know what an installer system is.  Where can we get these
> required installer systems in order to get Gnumeric on the desktop?
>
>
> Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any mac 
> bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a
> link 
> which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the
> windows 
> port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific
> dependencies 
> and systematic handling of the gtk stack.)
>
> Portable Gnumeric has worked on all macs except one, which was an
> older computer.
>
> What is a “Windows bundle” and where is this link within it.  I have
> no idea what a dependency is, nor what systematic handling is, nor
> what a gtk stack is, nor why an understanding of this will help me
> help students get Gnumeric on their desktops.
>
> For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses.
>
> How do we go about getting these?
>
> So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's may
> be 
> all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is 
> contagious,
>
> all the best,
>   Adrian
>
>  
>
> Again, I hope I do not come across as being flippant.  I truly believe
> in the freedom you speak of.  If it is intended that open source be
> available only to those who are very very patient, or are willing to
> learn all the technical things of which you speak – then we will
> continue to lose the 98% of the people we declare “not patient
> enough.”
>
>  
>
> One final thought.  Since nearly all of my students have windows on
> their standalone desktops and laptops, perhaps if simple instructions
> were available for that computer type . . . .
>
>  
>
> Thank you for your patience with this numbskull teacher of statistics,
> graphics, and economics in real estate applications.
>
>  
>
> George Dell
>
>
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Adrian Custer" <acuster gmail com>
> To: "George Dell" <dell aznet net>
> Cc: <gnumeric-list gnome org>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Another try to get a response
>
>
> > George Dell wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am instructor who regularly starts people on the Gnumeric path.
> But there is a recurring problem which strikes at the very growth
> potential of this wonderful open-source product.
> > > I want to thank all those who are so dedicated to this project.  It
> has been a boon to my students,  My request here is only my small
> attempt to make Gnumeric more successful!
> > > The problem --
> > >     In going to the web page "Getting Gnumeric" the new, excited,
> but unknowledgeable potential user is confronted with an immediate
> technospeak problem.  Pushing the "Get Gnumeric Now" produces nothing
> now.  It produces a confusing explanation of possible sources, but
> nowhere to just Get Gnumeric.  
> > The difficulty appears to arise when we consider *what* a user
> should 
> > obtain after clicking the button.
> >
> > Clearly this would need to be specific to the desktop of each user
> doing 
> > the clicking. Ideally, for the two dominant closed desktop
> environments, 
> > we would have installable artifacts since those users have been
> trained 
> > to look for such bundles. For the open desktop systems, user 
> > expectations are different---most get their software from their 
> > installer systems, which of course differ greatly from system to
> system, 
> > with no common "install gnumeric" command.
> >
> > Unfortunately, for the closed systems, gnumeric does not have any
> mac 
> > bundle and the windows bundle is not yet official but does have a
> link 
> > which is perhaps not prominent enough. (Official support for the
> windows 
> > port leads to lots of complications, e.g. release specific
> dependencies 
> > and systematic handling of the gtk stack.)
> >
> > For the open systems, we start needing system specific responses.
> >
> > So yeah, freedom is messy and we may loose the impatient---that's
> may be 
> > all right in the long run if you believe, as I do, that freedom is 
> > contagious,
> >
> > all the best,
> >  adrian
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