Re: [GnomeMeeting-devel-list] re: HIG review

[Damien Sandras <dsandras seconix com>]

Hello Christopher,

I'm back and reading my mails. Well, when Calum reviewed the GUI, he
reviewed only some parts of it :
- the main window
- the configuration druid

The preferences window, the calls history and general history windows
were not reviewed.

Here is what I think :
- I understand that things need to be changed to be fully compliant, for
example, the vertical toolbar is something negative, but I have an idea
for that.
- Except this, I don't see why "drastical" changes would be needed. The
only remaining violations are with the spacings, icons, and small
details like those ones.

Here is what I propose you :
- First we discuss why you think that the GUI needs to be fully redone,
we base this discussion on clear HIG violations in the current that
would justify a complete redone.
- If we all agree that it is better for GnomeMeeting to change its GUI,
then we can start to work on mockups BUT after 1.00. Why? Simply because
there are still lots of things to improve in the current GnomeMeeting
before I'm satisfied with it and also because I think the GUI is
something for which people are in general satisfied (Miguel de Icaza for
example was very surprised by the quality of the GUI).

I really think that HIG breakage in GM is not important, most things
being details, easy to fix. The toolbar is something we have to work on,
but I have an idea.

I suggest you to discuss on this ml about the future of the GUI and what
parts you think are violating the HIG and should be drastically changed.
But remember, (and I'm sure that Calum would agree on this), the HIG is
not perfect and is a set of recommendations, there are always exceptions
to the rules, but that needs to be discussed :)


PS: changing the whole GUI to improve it doesn't disturb me at all, but
it should really wait after 1.00.


Le ven 25/07/2003 à 17:46, Christopher Warner a écrit :
> I don't know if I'm reading the right HIG. To make
> sure I'm reading the right HIG. I'm reading The Human
> Inteface Guidelines (1.0). If there is another version
> or another one, I'd like to read it. Reading HIG 1.0
> the UI would have to be changed for Gnomemeeting to be
> in full compliance. Before I say anymore I will
> provide a mockup of a compliant Gnomemeeting interface
> as soon as my connection is repaired.
> 
> I don't know exactly what Calum said regarding the
> interface but i'd rather follow the documentation to
> the letter and then have the usability team look the
> mockups over. I'm making the broad assumption that the
> guidelines were made to be followed and that any
> deviation would come after the basic stuff is
> followed.
> 
> Also when I say drastically changed, I mean it in the
> sense that the UI will obviously be different to
> someone who has been using gnomemeeting even for one
> version. Sort of like starting up your favorite app
> and realizing things have changed and requiring you to
> learn a new interface.
> 
> As we are the only ones really talking about it, when
> you get back if you can give me exacts as to what
> Calum and you discussed about the interface so I can
> decide if making the mockups is something worth
> spending my time. If there are a couple of changes and
> Calum said that would be ok to get Gnomemeeting HIG
> 1.0 compliant then I won't waste my time and it can be
> spent with fiddling with that little buddy pic thing.
> 
> Anyone else have any view points on this?
> 
> -zanee
> 
> --- dsandras seconix com wrote:
> > Hello to all,
> > 
> > 
> > I'm in a Cybercafe. As I already stated in another
> > mail, I don't think the
> > HIG problems are so big as some people are thinking
> > it.
> > 
> > The menus, the preferences and preferences windows,
> > the addressbook, druid
> > and various other windows are all following the HIG
> > very closely (except
> > for spacing).
> > 
> > I wonder what you mean by "drastically changing the
> > GUI". Is there
> > something wrong related to the text chat and control
> > panel windows?
> > I don't think so. I had discussed this with Calum
> > and he agreed that the
> > only "main" problem was with the vertical toolbar
> > and with spacings.
> > 
> > So except moving the chat window and control panel
> > out of the main window,
> > what we all rejected to do, I don't see what can be
> > "drastically" changed.
> > 
> > > I read the full HIG and the current GUI doesn't
> > follow
> > > it even closely. There are numerous problems
> > including
> > > the vertical toolbar. spacing etc as stated in the
> > > review.
> > >
> > > However me and dominance were disucssing this at
> > some
> > > point and came to the conclusion that if the GUI
> > is
> > > going to be drastically changed we'd have to
> > provide
> > > an option for users to use the "classic" or non
> > HIG
> > > compliant GUI. Also the vertical toolbar isn't
> > > necessarily disallowed by the HIG.. it says to use
> > it
> > > as a last resort so technically it's not against
> > the
> > > HIG. Also some of the reviews items such as not
> > > knowing what specific acronym stands for etc are
> > > remedied via documentation. It's understandable
> > that
> > > the user shouldn't need to read documentation to
> > use
> > > something as simple as a video conferencing app
> > but
> > > when the terms need to be used; they simply need
> > to be
> > > used. If it means that instead of acronyms we use
> > the
> > > full phrase to describe "X" then thats what we
> > have to
> > > do. However if a user doesn't know what ILS is
> > then
> > > they aren't going to know what Internet Locator
> > > Service is until looking it up, so in some cases
> > it's
> > > a practice in futility, at the very least though
> > the
> > > acronym should be expanded.
> > >
> > > Everything else in this review I generally agree
> > with,
> > > but it means that the GUI has to be totally
> > redone.
> > > I've also already voiced my opinion on reporting
> > GUI
> > > bugs in bugzilla. Simply put, I think it's
> > retarded;
> > > you either try to follow the HIG for Gnome or you
> > > don't. Even if the HIG is wrong or doesn't work
> > for
> > > certain situations then it's the HIG that needs to
> > be
> > > addressed first. Also program functionality and
> > user
> > > interface problems I feel are two different
> > classes of
> > > problem. So UI problems should probably be
> > reported to
> > > the list or compiled into a monthly, quarterly,
> > > whatever review.
> > >
> > > In any event i'm back 7/29 if no one does an HIG
> > > mock-up of the new interface by then I'll also
> > help
> > > with that. I've put aside approximately 4 weeks
> > (28
> > > days) specifically for gnomemeeting so it
> > shouldn't
> > > affect getting the documentation complete.
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Gnomemeeting-devel-list mailing list
> > > Gnomemeeting-devel-list gnome org
> > >
> >
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnomemeeting-devel-list
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Gnomemeeting-devel-list gnome org
> >
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> 
> 
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-- 
 _	Damien Sandras
(o-	GnomeMeeting: http://www.gnomemeeting.org/
//\	FOSDEM 2003:  http://www.fosdem.org
v_/_	H.323 phone:  callto://ils.seconix.com/dsandras seconix com
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