Re: new highcontrast widgets?

[Willie Walker <William Walker Sun COM>]

Hi Peter:

Most definitely agreed on bringing users in -- it's something we've done 
with Orca since day one and it works very well.  In my experience 
working directly with end users, however, I've found that specific 
examples serve as a better foundation for discussion than a generalized 
problem statement.

So, in order to better avoid overgeneralizing the problem/solution too 
soon, I'd like to have some specific examples of dialogs with "Close" 
buttons that are under consideration for removal.  With these, we can go 
to the Orca user's list and have a discussion.

Andreas, do you have examples of dialogs whose "Close" buttons might be 
removed?

Thanks!

Will

Peter Korn wrote:
> Hi Willie, Calum,
>
> We might want to bring in some Orca users.
>
> So long as ESC works to dismiss these dialogs, I don't see an impediment 
> to removing the CLOSE button.  I guess the issue is that blind users 
> wouldn't be able to tell when a dialog box is close-able that way (if 
> they can't navigate to an "X" in the window manager in a closeable 
> dialog that lacks a window menu with Alt-F4 close on it).  Again, I 
> think we should get the input from some users...
>
>
> Peter
>
> > > > A big stopper for this was apparently the highcontrast themes, where 
> > > > the
> > > > close button in the corner hit target is pretty small apparently.
> > >
> > > > Would something like this be doable?
> > > > http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/hc.png
> >
> > I think it would depend upon the window manager.  I'm not sure what 
> > metacity provides for these.  Peter would probably know.
> >
> > > I'm pretty sure the main accessibility concern was feedback from 
> > > screenreader users, who preferred the safety of an explicit Close 
> > > button in the main part of instant apply windows-- i.e. one that they 
> > > could Tab to, and that a screenreader would announce.  IIRC, there 
> > > never used to be any way for screenreader users to tell if there was 
> > > a close button in the title bar or not, without pressing Ctrl-W or 
> > > Alt-F4 and listening to what happened, which is obviously an 
> > > unsatisfactory experience. I don't know off-hand if this situation 
> > > has improved with Orca.
> >
> > Orca certainly doesn't read the decorations of the window manager, and 
> > I'm not sure it can get access to them.  So, having something people 
> > can tab to would still be useful.
> >
> > But...before speaking in generalities, do you have specific dialogs we 
> > could take a look at?  I want to make sure I understand the problem 
> > better.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Will