Re: [gnome-network]Binary units

[Rodney Dawes <dobey free fr>]

On Sht , 2003-12-20 at 07:01, Carlos Morgado wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:13:47, Ross Golder wrote:
> > On ศ., 2003-12-19 at 21:14, Carlos Morgado wrote:
> > > > We should hope that you have better reasons than just that it is
> > > > non-traditional.
> > > >
> > >
> > > a) KB is a stup invention created by ignorants.
> > 
> > (stup == stupid??) Are the people that invented these units all those
> > years ago really ignorants? Not really. In the last twenty years, I have
> 
> Yes. They were obviously ignorant or else they would have used the correct  
> nomenclature instead of just inventing crap, and perputating their ignorance  
> is stupid.

Calling people ignorant and stupid is not what this project is here for.
Nor would I call creating a global marketing strategy based on the
ignorance of the customer, ignorant or stupid. Microsoft has been doing
it for a while now. Look at the eighty billion dollar budget they have.
Quite a large holding and tech company they have become. Sounds pretty
smart to me, in a world of capitalism.

> > not heard of any other measurement of data but bits, bytes, kilobytes,
> > megabytes etc. The abbreviations for this, as used by every technical
> > reference document I have ever read, use 'KB', 'MB' etc. It is
> 
> You read very poor "technical documents".

Or you do. Not all "technical documents" are targeted at the same
audience. And all the documents targeted at the audience that the
GNOME desktop and the gnome-network utilities are targeted at, use
the [KMGT][bB] notation. I know very few end users who would understand
what KiB meant if we were to suddenly switch to it.

> > traditional and historic, people that use these units actually _do_
> > understand what they are actually saying and the people they are using
> > them with actually understand too.
> >
> 
> Someone who writes "KB" knows what they mean. Nobody else does. Unless we're  
> psychic.

90% of the people on the planet must be psychic then. I've never seen
these "standard" units that you speak of, used *anywhere*. Every other
operating system I've seen, uses [KMGT]B. Every gaming system I've seen,
uses this notation. Every piece of software I've seen, every book I've
read.

> > > b) there is a real standard alternative that everyone undertsands.
> > 
> > Are you sure? I've never heard of or seen these units you speak of being
> > used in a technical application. I have no idea what you are talking
> 
> Again, you should find better documents.
> People who now write 'KB' won't notice the diference to 'KiB'.

They will. Or at least, they better. That's the whole point, right? To
spread knowledge and understanding of the shadowy scientific standards
world? People will notice. And they will say "wtf is a KiB?". Because,
as I said before, it is something completely different than what the
world knows. Not all standards are endorsed by some standards body. In
fact, most aren't. Microsoft Office is not specified as the office suite
to use by a standards body. The City of Boston doesn't specify in a
legal document that your daily driver must be a German-made luxury
sedan. Some things are standards simply by default, because of their
wide-spread usage. Such is why the [KMGT][bB] style notation for bits
and bytes are standards. Also, let me point out the implementations of
things where a byte isn't 8 bits. There is no such thing as better
documentation. In your specific field, there might be documentation that
is more geared toward your field. Such is the way with the fields I and
all the other people on the planet, deal with, as well.

> > 
> > That kind of attitude isn't going to help endear people to your
> > suggestions! You won't get very far taking personal digs at people just
> > because they don't agree with your point of view.
> >
> 
> I'm not trying to endear anyone. I'm stating my point.
> However, I think someone who signs himself has "Prof. Dr." has certain  
> obligations which including not defending make believe units. I *could* sign  
> M.Eng EECS however I feel that's irrelevant.

I can see that you aren't trying to gain endearment. Your attitude seems
to be completely against anything other than "I am right. You are
wrong.". The units are not make-believe as one would have you believe.
They are in wide-spread use, and have been for more than 20 years. There
is absolutely nothing about them that would make them be any more
make-believe than the unit notation that you claim to be a standard. You
shouldn't need to take potshots at people in order to "state your
point". I've not seen you make an actual point in this thread yet. All
you've done is waste time and call people names. In the military, one
has an obligation to follow the orders he is given. One also has a
similar obligation to not follow orders that he is given, that are not
legal or morally acceptable (where the morals are a specified set). What
you believe a person with a doctorate should defend, and what that
person believes they should defend, can be very different. I could sign
"New Age Slacker" or "Lead Technical Secretary of the Cabinet" also. I
don't see what stating your major(s) or minor(s) at a university would
gain you, even if it is irrelevant. If a person has a doctorate, her
title is "Doctor" regardless of the field in which that title was
acquired. That's just how things work. And since Andreas seems to have
a PhD and seems to be a Professor of Mathematics and Computer Sciences,
his title is very much relevant.

Please don't continue to post useless personal digressions to this
thread. It's a waste of time and deters from getting things done. Based
on the goals of the GNOME Project as a whole, the proper notation to
use is the [KMGT][bB] notation that the general global populace is used
to seeing and hearing. Irregardless of whether or not the GDSG needs to
clear up what it means on this issue a little, this is the notation we
should use, and is what our target audience has used for at least as
long as I have been alive.

-- dobey

Generation-X Hacker of Political Disenchantment with Make-Believe Words

"64K should be enough [memory] for any program."