RE: Desktop

["Jorge Gomes Silva" <jgs plurimarketing pt>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnome-list-admin@gnome.org [mailto:gnome-list-admin@gnome.org]On
> Behalf Of Brian Sea
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:59 PM
> To: Jan Sarenik
> Cc: gnome-list@gnome.org
> Subject: Re: Desktop
>
>
> GNOME was created as an aternative to KDE because of the
> "license-issues"
> of the latter.  I can't talk for other developers but I don't
> like seeing
> a "backbone" library(QT) of a GUI in complete control of a
> company that can
> turn on the Open Source initiative on the moment they feel
> that OSS is no
> longer profitable, or in their best interests.  This is why GNOME was
> created.

Also, even though QT is considered to be OSS, you must pay TrollTech if the
application you are writing is closed source. What this means is that if KDE
would become the standart GUI for Linux then all the companies developing
closed source programs that wanted to get the "standard" Linux/KDE look and
feel would have to pay TrollTech for a development release of QT. I believe
this doesn't make any sense when Linux is supposed to be a true free system.
If you don't pay Linus to develop for Linux why should you pay TrollTech ?

>
> I would like to think we have gotten past the QT license, though many
> haven't. But the fact remains that a company holds the rights to a
> backbone library.  To me, this is unacceptable, and thus
> GNOME will remain.
> Besides I feel that diversity and options are a Good Thing.
> Without it,
> another Windows(tm) might pop up.  Both are wonderful
> projects and will
> continue to improve(hopefully).
>
> A movement to make the two totally compatible has been started, but
> because of the deep rooted incompatibilities in either GUI I
> feel that it
> will fail.  Unless some *major* headway is make between the
> two groups.

I'm really clueless but it is my understanding that a reborn project
"Harmony" may make sense again. It is my perception (possibly wrong, anyway)
that there is now a major antagonism between some of the top Gnome
developers (mostly Helixcode) and GTK+ developers (mostly RedHat).

According to Dave Mason (RHAD "boss"), in one of last diary entries
(http://people.redhat.com/dcm/journal.shtml) "If GNOME is going to be a
place where those with opinions don't have the right to express them, I will
have to do my best to advise people against using it altogether. License or
not.". So we seem to have a problem here.

The problem appears to be that some of the best Gnome hackers don't
understand that some ppl may not be interested in using Gnome Libs. Not
because Gnome Libs is bad or good but, because these ppl don't need'em.

Gnome Libs include, I believe, some "components"/widgets that would make a
lot of sense in GTK+ (GnomeCanvas and GtkHtml) and that would make GTK+ a
much stronger toolkit. However the maintainers of these components seem to
have some resistance in allowing them to go into GTK+ and a lot o ppl don't
understand why (me included). Some of these ppl think that a general use
widget like "GnomeCanvas" could become "GTKCanvas" (no deps os Gnome Libs)
and a Gnome wrapper could be written around it. However mantainers have the
last word and, for what I've seen these widgets won't go into GTK+

There is also a problem that I really don't understand which seems to be
some hostility from Helixcode (or some of their most important hackers)
regarding Redhat (Miguel de Icaza being quoted as saying "RH Gnome sucks"
and complaning that RH controls the gnome.org domain).

Some ppl may think (and I hope they are wrong) that this antagonism from
Helixcode (?) towards RH is because RH is shipping their own Gnome package
and not contracting Helixcode to provide Gnome.

Anyways, lets all wish these excellent hackers get some sense, work together
and concentrate on doing what is best for Gnome. And then we may forget QT
and project Harmony again.

So, long live Gnome.

>
> QT was chosen by the KDE group for their own reasons, ask
> them.  I'm sure
> they'll gladly tell you :-)
>
> --sea
>
> On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 11:11:17PM +0200, Jan Sarenik wrote:
> > Hi !!!
> >    Maybe I am one of a thousands of people, who are asking:
> > why is there GNOME and also KDE ? Why aren't you cooperating.
> > You have beautifull desktop enviroments, but is someone
> > of you bad ? --> maybe someone of you want only get the
> > customers and then will start with making commercial apps ...
> > If it is not true, what I am talking about, let me know
> >
> > >>> Why is KDE buit on non-free library Qt ???
>
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