RE: Ease of use (was Call for constructive user criticism.)

["Fox, Kevin M" <KMFox mail bhi-erc com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Gilbert [mailto:gilbertt@tomgilbert.freeserve.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 2:40 PM
> To: gnome-list@gnome.org
> Subject: Re: Ease of use (was Call for constructive user criticism.)
> 
> 
> * Fox, Kevin M (KMFox@mail.bhi-erc.com) [990809 21:18]:
> > Yes it is hard otherwise, but it is worth it to hide the 
> complex features
> > that normally should not be seen by normal users, and still 
> allow the guru's
> > access. Otherwise a program has to be ether a toster, or a 
> jigsaw puzzle.
> > With 2 interfaces, it can be both.
> > 
> > > > Yes, but, it would help out the computer people who dont 
> > > know much about
> > > > computers. And the "slightly insulting" part will help 
> > > people want to
> > > learn
> > > > the advanced stuff. No one wants to look stupid. :)
> > > 
> > > People should learn stuff because they want to, not because 
> > > the computer is
> > > treating them as a idiot.
> > 
> > True. But, it allows them to still use the programs when 
> they dont know how
> > to use a computer and work themselves up to the advanced 
> level. Presenting a
> > new user with 10,000 buttons would just make the user go 
> bonkerz, but
> > presenting the user with the 100 or so buttons he/she needs 
> to start off
> > with will make learning go faster.
> 
> Oh come on! Do you think being an advanced user is about having more
> buttons??? That's madness.

I ment in the whole environment. a bunch of programs might have a lot of
buttons and widgets totaled...

> 
> btw, if anyone presented me with a piece of software which made use of
> 100 buttons, I would declare it a virus, and disinfect my hd of it :-)

agreed.

> 
> > 
> > > An insulting or patronising interface is possibly the worst 
> > > thing you can
> > > give a program.
> > > 
> > 
> > I agree. 
> > If you make 1 interface easy and simple to use, and the 
> other advanced and
> > more difficult to use, it allows the user to choose if 
> he/she is ready to
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Why the heck would you make an interface *more difficult to use* on
> purpose? Also madness. Why should more difficult == more advanced?

More complex choices meens more difficulty... for instance, when setting up
a modem you can set the max packet size.... Normal users would not
understand the text box and be confused by it... with the other interface,
only the guru's would see the text box... the simple users would not see it.

> 
> > use the complex stuff. It dosn't need to be insulting, it 
> just needs to be
> > very simple to use.
> > 
> > > iain
> 

Read other message about making the interfaces optional to programs that
dont need them.

> You do not need two interfaces to every program. Developers have
> enough to do without supporting two interfaces. It is patently
> unnecessary. A well designed interface makes things clear to users
> *whilst still allowing* the use of more advanced features.
> 
> Lets have some common sense, please.

...

> 
> Here's an example. I'm using mutt to write this. With a suitable
> config file (the default is quite good) a new user can cope with it
> totally. Press m to send a mail, r to reply, s to save. Nice and easy.
> There is a help line at the bottom by default, explaining stuff all
> the while.

Not so easy with gtk...

create_window_simple_main 
create_window_guru_main

would be much easier to code then a tun of ifs in a create_window_main
function. If this, then that button, if not, no button... Sometimes to make
it look good with out some widget takes moving things around. You can't
really do that in one function.

> 
> Once the user gets the hang of the software, he can disable the help
> line, divide his mail into folders and write macros to switch between
> them, reformat them, change the colours of various sections of
> messages, change the default keybindings, and customise his or her
> environment in many other ways.

Thats the idea...

> 
> Two interfaces? Come off it. Why not one good one?

not so easy with gui's. Widgets are more difficult to reposition then text.

> 
> Tom.
> -- 
>             .-------------------------------------------------------.
>     .^.     | Tom Gilbert, England | tom@tomgilbert.freeserve.co.uk |
>     /V\     |----------------------| www.tomgilbert.freeserve.co.uk |
>    // \\    | Sites I recommend:   `--------------------------------|
>   /(   )\   | www.freshmeat.net www.enlightenment.org www.gnome.org |
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> 
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