Re: GNOME Usability Improvements - Fix the window manager!

On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:36:15 -0400, Michael Fulbright wrote:

I work for a techinical helpdesk, and I fully understand where your coming
from. The stuff that your talking about is more aline with user friendly and
better gui support than window's manager support. I know this because what I
do is alot of software testing, documenting, and make suggestions for better
gui support for users to the programmers. I think that this can only come
from a) better design of the gnome gui b) support and developing better
intergrations with the various window's managers. However I wonder if it
would be better if gnome should instead more closely work with the various
windows manager's developers to develop better ways of communicating and
corrsponding with the various window managers.Like Mandrake said helping to
develop hints. This is the solid start we need to go.
 I am a big fan of gnome, I think it shows alot of promise, the developers
of gnome have done a superb job. I can only forsee trouble brewing if gnome
were to start up its own wm manger, adding more fuel to the fire in the holy
war, if this were to happen. 
> On Mon, Aug 02, 1999 at 08:49:58AM -0700, Matt Craun wrote:
> > Your asking for alot more trouble
> > than you realize by saying that maybe there should be a window's manager
> > gnome.  Once a manager is created for gnome, new users will assume that
> > the only one out there for gnome. You ended up with the debate over
> > this one is better than that one, which will bring a limit in the minds
> > those new users to the plethora of options available. You then begin to
> > start a nasty dialog that would end result in dividing the community as
> > whole. What should be the issue here is improving gnome to do what
> > software has never gone before. If a team needs to be constructed to do
> > then great, do it. 
> How is this different than what we have now?  A new user doesn't usually
> even know (or care to know) what a window manager is.  When they run
> the first time there will be some window manager running.  They are just
> as likely to think that is the only option available if that window
> is Enlightenment, 9wm, twm, ctwm, etc as if it were a window manager that
> was actually engineered to work more closely with GNOME than any legacy
> window manager. I think you are both overestimating how much most people
> care about things like window managers and simultaneously understimating
> their ability to discover that there are other options available if they
> choose to try them out.  From people I know who run windows help desk I 
> have yet to here them having problems with the fact windows only has
> one "window manager".  The class of problems that you have to worry about
> for new users are things like "How do I format a floppy?" and "How do I
> get these files onto Bob's machine?".  We don't do either of these well
> w/o a MIS person around unfortunately.
> I want to transcend above the holy war of which window manager is best
> simply give users a good solid starting point that will just work.  If
> are motivated I'm sure they'll hear all about the other options from
> their friends/coworkers/slashdot and will try them, thanks to the fact we
> going to have a nice GNOME/KDE window manager spec.
> Michael Fulbright
> Director - Red Hat Advanced Development Labs
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I had to hit him -- he was starting to make sense.

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