Re: GNOME libs 1.0.7 has been released

[hUnTeR <hunter userfriendly net>]

Ryan Leduc wrote:
> 
> 1)  Yes, it's true that people could compile from src themselves..
> 
>     If you have an RPM based system, you're just making a mess..
>     I prefer to keep tar installations to a minimum.  It's cleaner and
>     easier to keep track of things..

Excellent point Ryan, the beauty of the linux (redhat and debian)
distros is that they are basically package based and updating and
keeping a database of installed packages is MUCH easier to maintain than
tarballs. Cron does this nightly thru update.db and keeps track of your
currently installed RPMs...i dont think it cares much for independently
compiled tars.

> 
> 2)  Yes, you could make your own RPMS..
> 
>     Several disadvantages with this..
> 
>     A) This is a good thing to do once so you know how, but it's horribly
>        inefficient to have everyone do this every time..  It's a bad use
>        of resources.
> 
>        It's far more productive to have one person do it once, and the
>        rest of us can use the time to test the software, and send in bug
>        reports, fixes, suggestions, etc..

Exactly the point, newbies dont have a clue how to properly compile,
especially when the compile and install docs are not thoroughly
documented with every step they need to follow fo a successful install.
These users just want to RUN the software and not take the time to learn
the inter-steps to use it.

>     B) Potential to introduce variations that could cause unexpected
>        problems..
> 
>        One nice thing about one set of RPMs it that you have a common
>        starting point.

One source of RPMs is an excellent idea. Keeps the variability of
distros and libraries to a minimum. And, for example, older versions of
redhat are not necessarily the same as newer versions, from a linker
stand-point, this must be done to keep a standardized package installer
from failing.

>     C) One of the purposes of the gnome project is to attract newcomers to
>        linux by providing an easy to use graphical environment..
> 
>        What's the point of that if they have to first figure out how to
>        compile the software, then learn how to make RPMs, just to try out
>        this GUI that will make linux easier for the newbie..
> 
>        It's contradictory!
> 
>        We tend to forget we have a wide range of user types here,
>        with a wide range of experiences..   For many users, it's not
>        practical to expect them to install from source, or create RPMs
>        themselves.
> 
>        As for doing a buggy RPM release, and then waiting awhile
>        for an upgrade..
> 
>        You have all these people attracted to 1.0 from the press etc..
>        They try it, and it crashes all the time, and thyen they are stuck
>        with it  because there are no new RPMs..  They are going to want
>        to try it again, and the anti-gnome word will start to spread..
> 
>        If you are making an "ease of use" software, the first rule of
>        thumb is to make it easy to install..

Again, EXACTLY. Its hard enough to attract new comers to the linux
community because they already cant run "standard business apps" such as
MS office (primary example). So we must give them SOMETHING to attract
them to the distro - GNOME is perfect for this, since most newcomers
almost ALWAYS use linux for the xwindows and associated apps. Most dont
ever, or hardly ever use the command-line (old style UNIX) for their day
to day activities. Perhaps this is a legacy we must live with thanks to
WINDOWS and other GUI OSs. But, in order NOT to loose attraction they
INSIST on a GUI-based UNIX.

> I think it's clear that some sort of organized method is needed
> so that RPMs and debian packages can be made available as soon as a new
> update is released.
> 
> I think this needs to be coordinated with the gnome team so that the RPMs
> are consistent with the previous ones  (ie there should be a standardized
> set with the final say  going to the package maintainer), and can be made
> available at the gnome site.
> 
> Maybe a group of gnome users can volunteer to do this and take the weight
> of the gnome maintainers?

I thought we had this already. The first initial RPMs of gnome-1.0 and
associated apps worked beautifully. I would like to know what individual
made these or what group. They should be the ones or someone with a VERY
SIMILAR setup should make the newer RPMs.

> I'd volunteer myself except funding on my PhD runs out in about 6 months,
> so I must limit my participation to bug reports..

And we NEED bug reports, thats the only way RPMs and src get fixed,
never underestimate this role!

-- 
Michael B. Weiner
Systems Administrator/Partner
The UserFriendly Network (UFN)
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