RE: GMC Network - (Long)

2 things. 

1, the number of subnets/switches you use breaks down the traffic, and
2, If this is all going on anyway, "which it is on windows networks" why not

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jorge Gomes Silva []
> Sent:	Tuesday, December 29, 1998 5:41 AM
> To:	'Bobo Rajec'
> Subject:	RE: GMC Network - (Long)
> Probably this is not the right place for this topic but since it started 
> here and since it may be interesting to help understand Windows networks 
> I'm posting this here.
> => Network Browsing in TCP/IP Windows Networks <=
> There are 3 important roles when it comes to browsing a Windows Network:
> "Domain Master Browser"
> "Master Browser"
> "Backup Browser"
> The following is a transcript (I removed some parts of the text and 
> included what I think it is the essential) from technet with my comments 
> between []:
> *** Domain Master Browser ***
> The domain master browser is responsible for collecting announcements for 
> the entire domain, including any network segments, and for providing a
> list 
> of domain resources to master browsers. The domain master browser is
> always 
> the primary domain controller (PDC) of a domain.
> For a domain that uses TCP/IP and spans more than one subnetwork, each 
> subnetwork functions as an independent browsing entity with its own master
> browser and backup browsers.
> When a domain spans multiple subnetworks, the master browser of each 
> subnetwork announces itself as the master browser to the domain master 
> browser, using a directed [note: "directed"] MasterBrowserAnnouncement 
> datagram. The domain master browser then sends a remote NetServerEnum API 
> call to each master browser, to collect each subnetwork's list of servers.
> The domain master browser merges the server list from each subnetwork 
> master browser with its own server list, forming the browse list for the 
> domain. This process is repeated every 15 minutes to ensure that the
> domain 
> master browser has a complete browse list of all the servers in the
> domain.
> The master browser on each subnetwork also sends a remote NetServerEnum
> API 
> call to the domain master browser to obtain the complete browse list for 
> the domain. This browse list is available to browser clients on the 
> subnetwork.
> *** Master Browser ***
> The master browser is responsible for collecting the information necessary
> to create and maintain the browse list. The browse list includes all 
> servers in the master browser's domain or workgroup, and the list of all 
> domains on the network.
> Individual servers announce their presence to the master browser by
> sending 
> a directed [note: "directed"] datagram called a server announcement to the
> domain or workgroup master browser. Computers running Windows NT Server, 
> Windows NT Workstation, Windows for Workgroups, Windows 95, or LAN Manager
> send server announcements. When the master browser receives a server 
> announcement from a computer, it adds that computer to the browse list.
> *** Backup Browser ***
> The backup browser receives a copy of the network-resource browse list
> from 
> the master browser and distributes the list upon request to computers in 
> the domain or workgroup [i.e. when some Windows user clicks the "Network 
> Neighborhood icon"].
> Backup browsers call the master browser every 15 minutes to get the latest
> copy of the browse list and a list of domains. Each backup browser caches 
> these lists and returns the list of servers to any clients that send a 
> remote NetServerEnum API call to the backup browser. [i.e. when some 
> Windows user clicks the "Network Neighborhood icon"]
> End of transcript.
> I won't go into browser election.
> How do clients know which computers are the browsers ? WINS. How does it 
> work ? Browsers register specific names in the WINS Server where the last 
> (16th) character (byte) of name has a special meaning. Two examples:
> <Domain Name><1B> - "Domain master browser name.  This name identifies the
> primary domain controller and indicates which clients and other browsers
> to 
> use to contact the domain master browser. " (from technet);
> <Domain Name><1D> - "The master browser name that is used by clients to 
> access the master browser. There is one master browser on a subnet." (from
> technet) [this is a list of addresses. Not only one address];
> When a client wants to get the computers in the network neighborhood it 
> asks WINS for the master browser address, it gets a list of Backup
> Browsers 
> from the master browser and it retrieves a list of servers from a select 
> Backup Server.
> Conclusion: A client doesn't need to issue broadcasts to get the "Network 
> Neighborhood". However depending on the type of node a Windows machine is 
> configured as (node type is another concept. It defines in which way a 
> computer will resolve a name to an IP address) it may be using broadcast
> to 
> resolve names to IP and only after that it will use WINS. In that case you
> have broadcast but it's not necessary.
> So, does this idea of WINS and browsers work well ? When you consider very
> large networks the answer is NO. In large networks the replication of WINS
> databases among WINS servers is a big pain. WINS management is horrible
> and 
> very unflexible.
> Sorry for the long mail. Don't flame me please.
> Jorge.
> On Terca-feira, 29 de Dezembro de 1998 13:24, Bobo Rajec 
> [] wrote:
> >
> > Thus spake Jorge Gomes Silva:
> >
> > > Brandon S. Allbery [] wrote:
> > > > that a bunch of Windows boxes spamming the network every 30 seconds 
> isn't
> > > > noticed.
> > > You are wrong. That is true if you are running your Windows network 
> over
> > > NetBEUI. However if the network runs over TCP/IP (and this is what 
> "large
> > > companies" usually have) you can use WINS.
> >
> > He is right, unfortunately. You seem to be confusing announcement
> > broadcasts, aka browsing broadcasts, and name resolution traffic,
> > which could be either broadcasts or unicasts to the WINS server.
> >
> > What you see in the Network Neighbourhood (NN) window is the result of
> > the browsing broadcasts. All windows machines produce these, unless
> > you specifically disabled it ("browser service") on the NT servers and
> > on all Windows machines.
> >
> > I do not want to go into details like browser selections, master
> > browser, domain master browser and so on, it's all really crap.
> >
> > You use WINS server when you want to connect to the specified NetBIOS
> > name. You could obtain this name from the NN window or you could type
> > it in manually (net use x: \\server\share). This is the case when the
> > windows machine asks the WINS server about the IP address of the
> > specified NetBIOS name.
> >
> > That's why it happens so often that you see machines in the NN window
> > that really aren't on the network anymore ("Specified name could not
> > be found"), or you don't see nodes there when you are positively sure
> > they are there, up and running.
> >
> > BTW: I've been on a large network with many servers and many pcs
> > coming up and down all day long where the browsing traffic accounted
> > for more than 60% of the broadcasts. It's *highly* recommended to
> > disable the service and leave it running on at most 5-10
> > machines. (bug: you cannot disable it in Wfw 3.11. Life is hard)
> >
> > 	bobo rajec
> >
> >
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