Re: Gnome/Linux Application Installer

[Gleef <dzol virtual-yellow com>]

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Jason Tackaberry wrote:
> I'm not sure if this topic has been brought up before, but I haven't seen
> anyone talk about it lately, so I'll stir the pot again if it has.
> 
> There needs to be some universal package format for at least Gnome 
> applications, but preferably all Linux apps.  Has there been any talk among
> the RedHat and Debian (and others who have package formats) to agree on one
> common structure?

Well first off, GNOME is not just a Linux application.  Nobody really is
in any position to designate a package format that will be supported on
everything from Linux to *BSD to HP-UX.

As far as the Linux platform package format goes, I think the LSB has
declared that either RPM or a tweaking of RPM will be the official package
format for Linux, but nothing is official yet.  Note to debian users, this
would be a change in format, but there was no mention of mandating the RPM
program.  You could still use somthing like Apt or a modified dpkg, with
RPM files.


> Gnome apps will also need to be able to add items to the Gnome menu.

That's already there.  They just need to put a .desktop file in
$prefix/share/apps.


> We should give the user complete control over the install if he wants it.  That is, being
> able to specify what items will be installed to the menus, and where they will
> go.

That's already there too.  If a user puts .desktop files in ~/.gnome/apps,
then a "User Menus" section appears right below the "Help System" entry.
The user has complete and total control over this section.  The sysadmin
has control over the "System Menus" section.

If you rightclick on the foot, you can turn off the System and/or the user
menu.  This allows a user who hates how the sysadmin arranges files to do
it on their own, and ignore the sysadmin's setup.


> (Nothing bugs me more when Windows apps create their own program groups
> and install reams of useless shortcuts there like READMEs and Help files.)

We ain't Windows :-)


> This also includes being able to install _any_ package _anywhere_.

This is Unixland.  Users should not be able to install anything anywhere
but their home directory (or possibly /tmp).  RPM supports relocatable
packages, so if the package is written properly, a sysadmin can install it
where they feel like it.  Other system's package formats have varying
track records in this regard.  Solaris is apparently moving to a windowsy
install wizard type system (bleh!)


> Uninstalls should be simple, and they should _work_.  Some installs are
> more complicated than others.  Some might just want a simple progress
> bar, while others will have more comprehensive "look what you can do
> with this program" screens during the install.  The install format
> should be flexible enough to allow this -- maybe even provide some kind
> of scripting language. 

Have you even looked at RPM or dpkg?  They support everything you're
talking about except the annoying advertising screens.  I don't know about
dpkg, but RPM also allows for preinstall scripts so an annoying commercial
package could conceivably run a script to put up an advertising window.
Please shoot them if they do this, though.


> If some standard isn't decided on, I can see software developers
> eventually writing their own little install utilities.  (We are
> beginning to see this with things like StarOffice and WP8.)

Beginning?  This has been one of the biggest gripes about Unix since at
least the 80's.  None of the proprietary Unixes want to agree on anything
of the sort.


> Instead of making the same mistake Windows apps do (duplicating the damn
> InstallShield for every application), we should have _one_ copy of the
> installer/uninstall program that handles a common format.

Instead of trying to change the way the entire Unix world works, we should
focus on making GNOME work properly no matter how its installed, and
support the more sane of the packaging formats.


-Gleef