Re: Food for thought: Why (and how) should KDE and Gnome unite?

[Gleef <dzol virtual-yellow com>]

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Kevin Forge wrote:
> Gleef wrote:
> > 
> > As for other "settings", one thing the GNOME Foot does (and I assume the
> > big K does also) is access the configuration of the panel.  Since the
> > GNOME and KDE panels operate very differently, something like that
> > couldn't and shouldn't be the same.
> 
> All that is needed is for Gnome apps to be listed on the K menu
> automatically.

This is a list for KDE and GNOME interoperability.  Don't assume that
everyone is using a K menu.  I, for one, use the GNOME panel, and it would
make sense for there to be an easy way for a program to install itself on
either/both menus regardless of what is being used.


> > Alternately, a Baboon-KOM bridge could be developed so that KOM
> > applications can use Baboon objects and vice versa.  I don't know how
> > feasible such a bridge would be, but it sounds like the sort of thing
> > someone will try regardless, and we should embrace it if it works :-).
> 
> Corba is among other things a communication protocol. ( If I remember 
> correctly ).  Proper Corba apps should be friends.

Proper Corba apps should be friends, but my understanding is that both
Baboon and KOM make assumptions above and beyond the raw Corba spec,
making them trickier to integrate.  Mico and ORBit should talk to each
other fine though.


> > How?  An "application-independent string repository" would have no idea of
> > the context in which the string is being used, and so risks giving bad
> > translations often.  Gettext uses an application-specific string
> > repository, so that all translations are in context, and hopefully more
> > likely to be correct.
> 
> Nope.  What's needed is that when I click the option to switch primary
> language to french on the KDE control center, the Gnome apps are 
> also translated.

What do you mean "Nope"?  Are application-specific strings less likely to
be correct.  Keep in mind both KDE and GNOME use gettext's
application-specific strings very effectively.

What mechanism does KDE's control center use to switch languages?  Since
both are using gettext, I would think that works already.  Can you give
more detail to the problem you're having?


> > Currently GNOME doesn't have a real keybinding standard.  We want one that
> > is cusomizable, for example, lets say the default cut/copy/paste bindings
> > for the American QWERTY keyboard are the ones from windows (C-X, C-C &
> > C-V).  For the Dvorak keyboard it might make more sense to have them C-Q,
> > C-J & C-K.  On a Greek keyboard it might be C-Chi, C-Psi, C-Omega.
> 
> My advise.  Just put a link to the KDE page for Key binding standards.
> KDE unashamedly set out to copy the MS Windows key bindings as much as 
> possible.  However that's just the default.  If you want to use C-Z 
> for copy just click the option or edit the text file.

As I indicated, hardcoded keybindings won't work for a truly
internationalized program.  Find C-Z on a Greek keyboard.  While KDE might
have a more potent keybinding solution than its webpage implies, linking
to the webpage is not, in itself, a solution.


> > In the Linux world, the desktop environment is not something that
> > needs a standard.  For 80% of new Linux users, they will probably use
> > the desktop environment shipped with their distribution.  RedHat and
> > Debian have committed to shipping GNOME.  SuSE and Mandrake have
> > committed to shipping KDE.  XiG has committed to shipping CDE.
> > Caldera will probably ship whatever seems best at the time.  Think of
> > it as another way distributions can get product differentiation, and
> > you'll see that there is likely to be a choice for a long long time.
> 
> Actually once the QPL is sorted out and in force they will all ship
> both KDE and Gnome.  Except Caldera which flatly refuses to send
> BETA software to it's clients.

Somehow I doubt that.  Most will probably give an easy way to switch, but
for example, XiG is very heavily into CDE, and currently ships neither KDE
nor GNOME.  Even if a distribution ships both, one will likely be the
default, and I suspect some will have KDE the default and some GNOME.
This is because the marketing divisions of the distribution companies will
demand product differentiation.  Choosing amongst CDE/KDE/GNOME/GNUStep is
an excellent way they can do this.

Since GNOME is nearing the end of its beta days, I am sure Caldera will
start considering it.


> > Both Miguel de Icaza (our fearless leader), and Federico Mena Quintero
> > (graphics engine coder extraordinare and a core GNOME programmer) are
> > not only from Mexico, but they both went to UNAM.
> 
> <joke>
> So Gnome is a North American thing ?  KDE has ( I think ) 6 to 9 people
> in it's "core teem".  1 is from Argentina and one from Namibia.  There
> are also a bunch of europeans and a couple Americans.  Sounds 
> international to me. 
> </Joke>

:-)  From a quick look at gnome-libs/AUTHORS, we have a Hungarian, a
Czech, a few Germans, an Italian.  It looks like GNOME is
Northern-Hemisphere only, and KDE is Cross-Equator :-)

 
> > > > is "better", an apple or an orange?
> > > Is there any developer who actually programmed in both?
> > 
> > I would think it would get very messy programming in either, but the
> > orange would be stickier.
> 
> Preston Brown.  Currently at RedHat Programs for both Gnome and KDE ( He
> is in the KDE Core and on the RedLabs resident Gnome staff ).  

Yes, he's also the person who started this list.  That still doesn't
answer my apple/orange question :-)

-Gleef