Re: Can we add avahi to d-l?

[Petr Kovar <pmkovar gnome org>]

Gabor Kelemen <kelemeng gnome hu>, Sun, 31 Aug 2008 02:03:44 +0200:

> Petr Kovar írta:
> >
> >
> > Now the question regarding the idea is where is that place with a Tx
> > common instance. It's at Fedora, 
> 
> Wrong. The Tx instance at Fedora is not the "common instance", but the 
> (AFAIK) only actually _working_ instance, that's all. 

Well, that's pretty much enough considering the current situation. ;-)

> If I understand 
> correctly, it's not even intended as the common instance, but as a 
> testbed for current development.

OK, but for now let's talk about the present, not about the future.

> > not at the Translation Project, as Claude
> > suggests to move Tx there, and as probably should be done, 
> I think we all agree on this. The current e-mail based TP robot method 
> is clearly outdated and sucks, 

The TP robot may sucks, but honestly, submitting translations upstream via
Fedora sucks for sure.

> replacing it with a more modern tool 
> would be more than desirable. Now, we only have to convince the TP
> crew :).

So I humbly suggest to come to the discussion there (i.e.
on translation-i18n lists sourceforge net) after the 2.24 release.

> > nor at GNOME (in
> > this case too, all GNOME translators would be more than happy). :-)
> >
> > So, (my) points about the current Tx implementation at the Fedora
> > Project still stand, and unfortunately will stand as long as
> > translators are required to register at the very downstream, sign some
> > special license agreement, and supply highly personal data to Red Hat,
> > and this all just to submit a translation to upstream.
> >
> >   
> I think you are right, asking people to be part of FP who don't want to 
> be part of FP and to give their personal data to any specific company, 
> is not very lucky. But currently nobody is obliged to do so: 

You're wrong, I'm afraid. To submit translations for several
upstream projects, we _are_ currently obliged to go to Fedora. And that's
it.

> if you 
> don't want to register there, it's fine, then somebody else will do the 
> translations, if at all, and nothing wrong will happen if those projects 
> will not be translated - 

Sorry, but I don't share this it-is-not-wrong-if-it-is-untranslated-and
-stays-so kind of logic. The upstream projects like avahi should make it
possible to submit translations via common infrastructure shared among all
projects (i.e. via the Translation Project, for example), just as did many
projects before (e.g. those of freedesktop, GNU), and what's
important, from the beginning, not just in the development plan. Tying the
upstream projects l10n to a distribution's infrastructure (whether it's
Fedora's, Ubuntu's or whosever) is by no means a way to go, neither for the
time being.

> even then, you can still put translations into 
> downstream, if you want.

That's not really the option, you know. ;-)
 
> The most important thing is, that the FP's Transifex is a kind of test 
> environment and I'm sure (speculation begins ;)) it won't become the 
> "ultimate" Tx - exactly because of your concerns. 

I believe that's the plan, too.

> And after Tx becomes 
> mature enough, anything can happen, including converting TP to a common 
> Tx hub, setting up a GNOME-hosted Tx for external GNOME dependencies, 
> setting up another one on f.d.o, etc. - and this is only what I can 
> imagine :).

I know, I know, but once again, this is the future, that's not my point. I
can only cut & paste the Claude's suggestion, that'd solve the
upstream/downstream problem for the time being: "I suggest using the
Translation Project until there is a common agreement about a
shared/upstream validated Transifex instance." Thumbs up from me!

Regards,
Petr Kovar