Re: xscreensaver translations

[Christian Rose <menthos menthos com>]

On 24 Jun 2002, Carlos Perelló Marín wrote:
> [...]
> > > All .po files WITH translations were moved, if you look at those .po
> > > files that were not moved you will see that they don't have any
> > > translations so Why should I move them?
> >
> > Pardon?
> > sv.po had hundreds of translations, yet you decided NOT to move it. So
> > clearly you didn't move all po files with translations.
> >
> > Here are the stats in the xscreensaver module for the po locales that
> > weren't moved at the time and in some cases still haven't been moved:
> >
> > da: 904 translated messages.
> > ca: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages.
> > de: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > et: 63 translated messages, 841 untranslated messages.
> > fi: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > fr: 158 translated messages, 243 fuzzy translations, 418 untranslated messages.
> > hu: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > it: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > ja: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > ko: 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 758 untranslated messages. (error)
> > pl: 482 translated messages, 120 fuzzy translations, 425 untranslated messages.
> > pt_BR: 1 translated message, 1 fuzzy translation, 759 untranslated messages. (error)
> > ru: 436 translated messages, 325 untranslated messages.
> > sv: 212 translated messages, 251 fuzzy translations, 430 untranslated messages.
> > uk: 24 translated messages, 324 untranslated messages.
> > wa: 159 translated messages, 602 untranslated messages.
> > zh_TW: 445 translated messages, 10 fuzzy translations, 433 untranslated messages.
> >
> > Granted, some of these have only 2 translated messages in total and
> > contain errors, but there appears to be several that have hundreds of
> > translations and that you for some reason decided not to move.
> >
> > I don't understand that at all. Are you by this saying that all po files
> > that are not complete are worthless and don't have to be moved?
>
> No. I'm talking about all modules with 2 translated messages, 1 fuzzy
> message and errors.
>
> The other ones that are not those where not moved by mistake (I really
> don't know why!!!)
>
> Sorry. I was playing with two xscreensaver branches and also with the
> latest xscreensaver tarball (the first that had i18n support) and seems
> that I lose some files, It's hard to get the latest file when you have
> several sources.
>
> Please, Could you move the other .po files?

Certainly. I'll do it later tonight.


[...]
> > And a po file not being 100% complete doesn't have to mean it's not being
> > maintained. Look at the cvs logs or the ChangeLog! xscreensaver is hell of
> > a work to translate; the process from scratch to finished po file is
> > certainly not instantanious. If you had looked at the ChangeLog, you would
> > have seen that sv was certainly maintained.
>
> An unmantained .po file is for me a .po file with errors that only have
> 2 or 3 strings (that come from old .desktop files) and have errors (like
> a wrong charset).

...but da, et, fr, pl, ru, sv, uk, wa, zh_TW don't fit that description at
all. Only de, fi, hu, it, ja, ko, pt_BR do in this case. But you already
said this was an error. I should stop being so grumpy. :)


> > > I don't think that
> > > jwz wants to add those empty files in xscreensaver package they are only
> > > wasting bytes.
> >
> > If you are saying that we should only store 100% complete po files in CVS,
> > I think you have misunderstood the point of using CVS. It's for
> > DEVELOPMENT, people aren't supposed to only commit complete translations.
> > A policy of that would be a terrible drawback since for translations like
> > xscreensaver where there are many complex messages that would take one
> > person many weeks to translate full-time, there would be no way to do
> > simple fixes by other people or switch maintenance except using yet
> > another cvs for the actual translation work.
> >
> > I certainly hope that this was only an error and you don't want a cvs
> > policy like that.
>
> Christian, you know how I work with i18n and l10n in GNOME and I hope
> you didn't thought that about me. I think that all my GNOME work tells
> about me that I'm not so idiot to have this stupid policy...

I was just starting to getting worried. ;-)
I'm sorry.


[...]
> > And also, this still doesn't explain why you didn't cvs remove those po
> > files from the xscreensaver module which you had moved.
>
> What?
>
> This modules is NOT my module. I'm not the mantainer so I don't think I
> should remove them. I added a file saying where should be new
> translations just after I saw a new translation commit (Remember that
> the dead modules does not remove the old translations, they add a file
> with THIS_MODULE_IS_DEAD, or something like that. It's not the same but
> is similar...).

Yeah, that's the normal procedure, but in this case the module maintainer
(Jacob) explicitly told us that the module was dead. It won't ever get
used again. Finito. This is the HACKING file:

----
This CVS module is only for GTK 2 porting and gettext support.

This module is being maintained by jacob berkman <jacob@ximian.com>
(gnome cvs jberkman).

all patches should be submitted to bugzilla in the xscreensaver
module.

When this stuff is merged upstream this module will be removed.

jacob berkman  <jacob@ximian.com>
march 8 2002
----

And this has happened now. So there's no point in keeping the
po files there, because the module will be removed anyway.

Also, should someone desperately want them back (why I wouldn't know),
they can always be restored from cvs history.


> Also I sent an email to gnome-i18n so I think that is
> not my problem if a translator does not read my banners and put they
> translations at xscreensaver module (Of course, I'm talking about any
> commit after my banner addition).

It's easy to do this kind of mistakes, even if there are
README.translators files etc. More than once I have committed translation
updates on dead branches, for example, or at least started to work on one
before realizing my error.


> If I remove the .po file he/she will add his/her new translation anyway
> because he/she does not read.

I actually believe there is a difference. If there are *no* po files in
the po directory people are more careful before committing. Also, people
are more likely to notice THIS_MODULE_IS_DEAD etc. and other
documentation, simply because they stand out better. At least I am.

And if you are looking for updating a translation you know exist but the
file simply isn't there where you expect it to be, then you are more
likely to start thinking about if it's the right branch/module that
you are looking in. Again, speaking of my own experience, but I guess this
applies to some other people too.

That's why I want to remove the old po files.


> Well, as I said, the other .po files that have more than 2 or 3 strings
> should be moved. They were not moved because I didn't saw them. SORRY.

Sorry for being so rude and assuming so much. I should know better.


Christian