Re: Subversion Migration: the importance of maturity.
- From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel ximian com>
- To: Carlos Perelló Marín <carlos gnome org>
- Cc: Luis Villa <luis villa gmail com>, Sriram Ramkrishna <sri aracnet com>, Mikael Hallendal <micke imendio com>, Hacking Gnomes <gnome-hackers gnome org>, James Henstridge <james jamesh id au>
- Subject: Re: Subversion Migration: the importance of maturity.
- Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:44:33 -0400
Hello,
> > * Community: We want to be able to plug into an active
> > community, where we can get support and we can benefit from
> > other third party experiences, tricks and information.
>
> Usually that's not a big problem in the Free Software world. If it's a
> free software project, you usually have a community around it.
Although your statement is almost true, am sure we can all appreciate
the difference between the extreme of `the community made up of the
author' and `a community of one hundred thousand users' ;-)
The volume of the community matters.
> > * Maturity: Arch and Monotone are at the place where Subversion
> > was two or three years ago, when the early adopters were
> > trying out the technology. And ever since they said `This is
> > usable' in the pre 1.0 day, and even a year ago when 1.0 was
> > released people still had issues and these problems had to be
> > sorted out.
>
> Well, seems funny that I need to say this, as I suggested the migration
> to Subversion a year ago, but, Arch is around before Subversion got the
> 1.0 release:
>
> http://regexps.srparish.net/src/tla/
>
> tla-1.0.tar.gz 19-Jun-2003 21:25 2.8M
>
> While Subversion didn't reach the 1.0 release until 8 months later...
>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/NewsItemView?newsItemID=612
>
> Don't know about Monotone.
Subversion, being a commercial product was a lot stricter about what
they would be willing to call a "1.0".
> > No matter how great Arch and Monotone are (and they are
> > beautiful) they have just not received enough testing nor have
> > they aged enough to be used for something of the scale of
> > GNOME.
>
> Well, Ubuntu is using Arch as part of its development since some months
> ago already and in the near future will be use it much more. GNOME and
> KDE are included into Ubuntu so... I think that's a good stress prove,
> isn't it?
How large is this Ubuntu repository, how many revisions and branches
live in this repository?
I do not know what you guys use the repository for, but you could
probably tell us more:
* Do you check in the source code for every program that you
ship in Ubuntu into arch, and maintain all of the branches?
If this is the case, this is a pretty big respository.
* Or do you use Arch/Bazar just to check in the build files
that drive the build?
If this is the case, then it seems like a very small
repository
The Mono repository holds 1.6 gigabytes of data.
> > * User base: only as a function of the previous maturity
> > component: how many large projects have adopted Arch?
> > Monotone? and Subversion?
>
> I cannot give you a list of the projects that are using them.
>
> >
> > How many lines of code are maintained by those adopters in
> > each case?
>
> No idea of numbers.
Lets find that information, because this has all the signs of a red flag
to me. If there are no large deployments, then Arch has not been
hardened enough.
> Yeah, there are 17 links to projects, but, for instance, the whole
> Debian project is not using Subversion, only a part of it, others are
> using Arch and I'm sure there are others that are using other ways to
> handled the code.
Ok, lets scratch Debian. We still have Apache, Samba, KDE and Mono.
> Arch has also, at least, one company that I'm aware of, I think there
> are more, but I'm not sure.
Lets get the data then. I have provided the data on the Subversion side.
We cant pull a Rumsfeld and just say `Lets go Arch because there are
known unknowns and unknown unknowns and we know that Ubuntu is using it'.
> > * Subversion has a full time staff of developers working around
> > the clock to bug fix subversion and maintain regression test
> > cases.
>
> Arch has also developers working on it at full time.
Lets get numbers: how many.
Subversion has 8 full time employees that have been working full time
since 2000, and they are employed by Collab.NET that specializes on
this.
Miguel
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