Re: To answer your question about the upcoming Style-Guide...

On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 07:09:42PM +0200, Tom Vogt wrote:
> why not give the user this freedom in the first place? why not START the
> whole install procedure by having the user drag&drop the app icon on the
> menu folder he wants it installed into? kind of like the "install icon" in
> cde, only that it additionally installs the whole app on the system.
> just a weird idea.

this is unix ... the install is done by root, not the user ... therefore,
those two are not connected ... you might just log in as root on your
own machine ... but imagine gnome running on a server with a bunch of
X terminals in a computer lab ... or even on workstations that you don't
have root for ... plus I don't want to move my mouse 1000x just to set up
those new apps I installed ...

they're put into the system menu .. the system menu is NOT changable by
users and therefore doesn't really make too much sense to change it ...
one will have to put the new app into his personal menu by hand anyway ...

> gnome should NOT be permitted to duplicate that mistake. that's why I came
> up with the idea above. it surely isn't finished, but maybe a starting point
> for discussion?

apps should install their .desktop file in an appropriate directory, this
is what the app author mandates (e.g. "I say this will go into Applications")

the root is installing things so he can change the system menu around if
he doesn't like it ... but he shouldn't be required to do anything ... he
shouldn't be even required to have a GUI running to install a new app ...
just do the rpm over a remote link ...

> and that means NOT following ANYTHING too closely. if gnome looks too much
> like windoze or apple or whatever, people will assume it works like it. if
> you copy, you've got to copy it all. I don't remember the source, but a
> while ago I read that people unfamiliar with a new functionality (this was
> tested with home stereos, I believe) are most confused if the new or changed
> thing looks like something they know. they are not as confused if it looks
> as new as it is. it's probably a matter of category thinking, the same way
> you don't notice the details anymore once you recognized an unfamiliar image
> as a known item, say a tree.

trust me ... I don't find gnome to look at all like windows ...

> > I see Redhat and GNOME becoming like Netscape with Mozilla.  Support,
> > direct, contribute, and take the finished product and spread it throughout
> > the marketplace.  If you don't think GNOME is going to have a standard WM,
> > you're kidding yourself.  Whatever comes in Redhat 5.2 or 6.0 is going to be
> > the standard GNOME WM.  The E guy *is* working for Redhat.  What's different
> > is UNLIKE KDE, Gnome apps will run under any WM.  That's pretty critical.
> and no matter what rhlabs comes up with, gnome needs to support every wm
> that wants to be supported. even kwm if the need is there. the ability to
> choose my windowmanager is one of the prime reasons I love X - despite all
> it's shortcomings.

rhlabs aren't in the bussines of making window managers ... they are in
the bussiness of helping gnome right now ... which means writing apps ...

gnome apps in the future won't run under just any WM ... there will be
requirements of the wm ... such as

1) motif hints
2) icewm hints
3) session managment support

> I work in a company where one of the problems of maintaining a standard
> windoze setup throughout 100+ machines is a major source of trouble. one of
> the problems is that users want to customize their machines. they want
> custom applications, but they also want those nice running-dog-mouse-cursors
> and cute screen savers and cool desktop backgrounds.
> (damn am I happy that I work on the solaris and Linux machines. :) )

hmmm .. must be hell trying to administer 100 machines that have diff
interfaces ... I thought windows also had multiple user support though? 
doesn't it?


George Lebl <>
  The following implements RSA in perl and is illegal to export from the US:

          #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
          $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1

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