Re: File/Quit/Exit/Saving Application termination

[Ric Klaren <ia_ric cs utwente nl>]

Hi,

On Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 11:21:16AM -0400, Gleef wrote:
> Well first thing is to quote someone (I forget who), you Exit a room, you
> Quit smoking.  Quit carries connotations of permanancy in English.  This
> would make Exit slightly preferable.

Exit - Quit all the same to me.. what I mean I have no preference... I
usually see Quit most often.

> This is inadvisable, since even with the exclamation mark, people don't
> always realize that you have an item in the menubar that doesn't act
> like a menu item.  This is from experience, I have seen new users
> struggling with programs that had this very menu item.  Nobody liked it.

It took a little while for me to get used to it too. I was just listing
some stuff I encountered and have to agree with you on the not advisable
point.

> I assume that in the pictures above and below that the <GF> is the menu
> that would be headed by either "Program" or the GNOMEprint.

Yup.

> > The File menu is just an example here it could also be document/whatever.
> > The idea is have more Quit-style menu entries. Like abandon -> exit app and
> > abandon all files, also seen as Quit all.
> > 
> > +----------------------------------------------+
> > | <GF> File <more stuff>                  Help |
> > +-----+----------------------------------------+
> >       | ....... |
> >       +---------+
> >       | Quit    |
> >       | Abandon |
> >       +---------+
> 
> With the File menu in the second place, Exit makes NO sense there.
> Abandon is a confusing term, people would understand Close All better,
> assuming that is really what you're talking about.  This would belong
> under File.

It was intended to go under file. It seems some tabs got in 'the picture'..
Close All would be better agree..

> > Or to put it in the <GF> Menu (program/foot/gnome menu).
<snip>
> 
> Here I would say that Abandon is in the wrong place, unless I
> misunderstand what you mean by it.

Depends a little on what you do with the 'exit' type menu entries. If you
put all under the Gnome Foot menu/program menu it could be logical... I
guess it depends a little on the type of application.

> > And now for something completely different...
> > 
> > +----------------------------------------------+
> > | <GF> File <more stuff> Quit             Help |
> > +-----------------------+------------------+---+
> >                         | And save all     |
> >                         | And Abandon all  |
> >                         | And save some    |
> >                         | Suspend work     |
> >                         +------------------+
> 
> That could make sense.  My first impression is that it is too complicated,
> and that people are going to have problems not quitting from the leftmost
> menu.  The problems my users were having earlier were as much about the
> location of the Quit quasimenu as the functioning of it.

I guess this depends a little on the computer experience of the user.
Someone with computer experience will indeed have a 'huh!?' experience.
Someone without might look at the screen see a Quit or Exit entry and move
his mousepointer over it and see the different 'quiting' options (Would
depend on the app how many and what kind...)

> Multiple quitting options are often done as a dialog after Exit, this
> gives the users the extra option of having a chance to hit the "No! I
> missed! I don't want to Exit!!" button.  If there is a special case that
> shouldn't be handled by the Exit dialog, it can go right above Exit in the
> left menu.

A dialog is an option indeed. (More common even) A savety 'Quit yes/no'
dialog could still pop up after some/all of these 'quit' entries. The
chance of a misclick is indeed a bit bigger in with this idea... Hmmmm
nevermind I guess this is a bad idea... Misclicks can be too desastrous
here.

> > With the suspend I refer to the idea posted a little while back by Steven
> > Pfab what should happen if an app quits. Suspend would save the state of
> > the app to a temporary location.
> 
> Can this be handled with Session Management?  Should there be a "Save
> Session" item in the Program menu?

> > The save some would implement Dan Kaminsky's quit idea... Quit -> box with
> > files that could be saved.
> 
> Saving some is a good idea for mutliple file applications (like Word
> Processors).  This could also be implemented as a button on a Exit dialog.

Yup.

> > PPS <preach mode on (skip if you don't feel like it :) ) > Why go in a
> > lengthy discussion about Quit in file/program menu or to have a file menu
> > at all... if there's maybe a good alternative :) Think alternatives...
> > Lateron put the alternatives against eachother and decide. <preach mode off
> > =) >
> 
> Because the issues go down to GUI philosophy.  Philosophical issues often
> need debate, and not just choices.  Some of the debate got a bit silly,
> but debate was needed on the issues.

Yup. Debate is good.. the 'sillyness' not so good and I was more referring
to the sillyness..

Ric
-- 
-----+++++*****************************************************+++++++++-------
- Ric Klaren - ia_ric@cs.utwente.nl ------- klaren@cs.utwente.nl --------------
-----+++++*****************************************************+++++++++-------
'And this 'rebooting' business? Give it a good kicking, do you?' 'Oh, no,
 of course, we ... that is ... well, yes, in fact,' said Ponder. 'Adrian
   goes round the back and ... er ... prods it with his foot. But in a
    technical way,' he added. --- From: Hogfather by Terry Pratchett.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PGP signature