Planning Session Notes and Log

[Shaun McCance <shaunm gnome org>]

I'm pasting in my notes for the planning session yesterday.
We discussed the "files and folders" topic group, and these
notes also include our brainstorming session from Chicago
a few months back. I've also attached the full log.

==== 2010-06-24 ====

"Back up my files."
•  multiple ways you could back up, starting with manually copying files
somewhere or writing them to a cd/dvd
• probably should make it into a guide so programs like deja dup can add
a splash page
• "Test a backup"
• "Things to think about when backing up"
• "How often should I make a backup?"

"I want to send this file to one of my contacts"
•  have a guide for "Share files" that this goes into
• explain the right-click on file and "Send to..." option
• "My contact can't open the file"

"I deleted a file - how can I get it back?"
• explain how to find file in trash and restore it
• see also delete/trash file
• mention existence of recovery tools?

"I want to encrypt/decrypt a file for security reason"
• see also encrypt volume/disk
• should be a guide, ubuntu wants to plug in
• explain encryption, separate "What is encryption?"
• see also seahorse

"Change the name of a file"
• maybe a note about valid characters, which is basically everything
except /, though there are more restrictions if the file is on e.g. a
fat32 filesystem

"I lost a file, how can I find it?"
• tracker, zeitgeist, recent files, search
• check trash?
• might need to be a guide, needs thought

"What are all those files with the ~ character?"
• nautilus doesn't show by default, explain in pages on hidden files

"How can I mark a file as special, important, or memorable?"
• emblems, are they more useful in a tracker world?

"Preview a music file by hovering the mouse over it"
• (TIP)

"How can I add a folder as a bookmark?"
• for the sidepane in nautilus or the file chooser
• maybe see also to a page for managing bookmarks

"How do I change the size of the icons?" (or icon view vs list view too)
•  there are quite a few options that let you do this
• we can discuss them all in that topic

"Send lots of files to someone by packaging them together" (Compressing
files and folders into an archive)
•  this is provided by file-roller. might need to do this with external
plugin pages

"Show hidden files" and "Make a file hidden" (probably advanced)
• hidden files start with a dot, end with a tilde, or are in .hidden
• putting it in .hidden is the only way to hide without renaming.
definitely very advanced

"Where did the list of folders at the side of the window go?"
• need to think about phrasing/clickpath
• basically for showing/hiding the sidebar, I suppose
• although there's still the spatial/browser dichotomy to deal with

"What does 'mount' mean?" (Explain mounting of removable media)
• explain unmount, eject, safely remove

"I want to see lots of files in the window at the same time" (Zooming
out, using listview)
• goes with "How do I change the size of the icons"

"I want to check two directories side by side" (the new split view of
nautilus)

"How can I arrange files in a different order?" (Using the Arrange Items
option)
• mention folders-first in a note; there's a preference for it

"I want to write some files to a CD or DVD"
• brasero, need to think about plugin points

"I want to share files/folders" (creating shared folders)
• add to "Share files" guide
• title needs to be more specific, avoid conflict with guide
• "Share files over my local network"?

"Let other users on this machine access my files" (permissions and other
voodoo)
• add to "Share files" guide

"Select all the files with certain words in their names" (Explain the
Select Items Matching dialog) (Tips and tricks)
"I want to delete files immediately, without going to the Trash
folder" (Using Delete shortcut, adding Delete option to the right-click
menu w. Nautilus prefs)
"I want to access files on another computer."
"When I double click a file nothing happens" (mimetypes)
"What does MIME type mean? What are Octal Permissions? What's an SELinux
context" (Explain terms in the Nautilus Preferences -> List Columns tab)
"I want to free up space on my disk."
"Open a program when a disk, CD, or camera is inserted" (Media
handling/autorun options)
"What does inode/directory mean?" (Explain folder right-click menu
properties window, Basic tab)


==== Chicago ====

Send files to people & devices
open files in different applications, change default
create files, see also templates
back up my files
burning files to cd
compress and archive files
sharing files
getting files off the network
search for files
copy and move files
delete files
restoring deleted files
"HJELP! I've lost a file, how can I find it?"
	search, recent, hidden, trash, zeitgeist
permissions (& SELinux)
mount/unmount (user-focused terminology?)
find size of file
why is my 500GB hard disk 480GB?
links
organize files (more explanatory, useful?)
quick access to files (bookmarks)
encrypt files folders drives
format disks (removable, etc), file systems

guide:
	Share & Send Files
	Universal Access


tips:
	templates
	hover preview
	drag modifiers
	spatial
	computer, home, trash on desktop
	single/double click
	autorun
	selecting files (sex it up)
		^S dialog needs onboard help
	batch rename
	extensions (scripts & extensions)
	direct delete (note in trash/delete)
	hidden files (warn on new)

errors:
	invalid characters in renaming

<shaunm> so do we have any sort of agenda?
 I see a few pages here for files and folders
<philbull> yes, I think we should concentrate on one area of the desktop help at a time
<shaunm> fair enough
<philbull> since we have a start on files and folders, maybe we should go from there?
<shaunm> we still have our brain dump from chicago for files and folders on the wiki
<philbull> I've set up a little infrastructure to help with this
 http://gitorious.org/desktop-help/desktop-help
 I was thinking that we could use this gitorious repo as a "staging" repo for the actual docs
 the idea is that it provides a lightweight checkout for people who only care about the desktop-help
* zkriesse is completely new to this section so he'll just sit here
<philbull> and we can manage merge requests etc. on gitorious
 how does that sound?
<shaunm> so use that instead of git.gnome.org/gnome-user-docs?
<zkriesse> Sounds like a rockin idea to me
<pcutler> I'm no git expert - shaunm, are you ok managing the merges?
<shaunm> that's fine. but we're probably going to lose history when pushing them to gnome-user-docs
<pcutler> personally, and I'm lazy, I'd rather do it in GNOME git
 how many new contributors do you think we're going to get?
<Gwaihir> shouldn't we have a complete repo on gitorious to preserve history even during merges?
<shaunm> if we cloned all of gnome-user-docs on gitorious, history would be easier
 checkout size is larger, of course
<Gwaihir> can't we clone only master?
* zkriesse will be back
<Gwaihir> obviously we should clean up master before doing that
<philbull> it's not a big issue
<Gwaihir> remove images and all the other docs... but that would scare quite a lot of people :-)
<philbull> it's more for new contributors than anything
 like a sandbox, almost
<shaunm> putting it on gitorious does help with new contributors
<pcutler> let's do it, I have other motivations (if shaun can help with merges)
<shaunm> Gwaihir: a clone is everything, all history of all files, regardless of what we remove now
<philbull> can't we cherry-pick commits anyway?
<Gwaihir> oh right, that's true
<shaunm> philbull: cherry picking between two completely different repos with different histories and file layouts is hard
<philbull> ah, ok
 so, are we OK to use this (gitorious) repo for now?
<shaunm> that's fine for now, if people don't mind losing history
<Gwaihir> for me it's ok, we can always use --author when pushing into g.o.o to give credits where credit is due
<shaunm> ok
 do we want to use page stubs? is anybody else running yelp3?
<philbull> shaunm: I'm not yet, but I have been using stubs
<philbull> (see the gitorious repo, in the templates/ dir)
<Gwaihir> I'm not (yet, hopefully), my jhbuild is in a total crap-state
<shaunm> cool
 philbull: oh nice, I like the templates
 nice explanations in the comment elements
<philbull> shaunm: they need work, but yes, I'm keen on putting comments like that in stub pages
<philbull> is there any way we can get Yelp 3 out to new contributors?
 I'm guessing jhbuild is beyond many people (including me...)
<shaunm> I don't have any better solution than having them build it, unfortunately
 I wish I had an easy way to create binaries
<philbull> that's a shame
<shaunm> yeah
 I mean, that's a long-standing problem with any of our software
<DeeJay1> shaunm: you can push only the master branch to gitorious from g.g.org
<shaunm> DeeJay1: yes, that can be done. but that's still the whole history
 ok, fine, shall we brainstorm?
<pcutler> shaunm: can you maybe blog the jhbuild instructions to build Yelp? or do you have to jhbuild all of GNOME?
* pcutler reads http://live.gnome.org/Jhbuild
<shaunm> pcutler: I never use jhbuild, actually
 I just manually build the pieces I need for yelp
<pcutler> ok, I may play with it this weekend
<Gwaihir> pcutler, you would need a verry long blog post...
<philbull> yep, let's brainstorm
<shaunm> cool
* DeeJay1 wonders if git rebase would do the trick, investigating now
<shaunm> so we have four topics right now: copy, delete, move, open
<philbull> yep
<shaunm> I've got my notes from chicago
<philbull> http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/DesktopHelpTopics
<shaunm> how about we start fresh with brainstorming, merge with the old list, and from there set out a concrete list of topics
<philbull> That sounds good
<shaunm> all right, so for those that are new to this
<philbull> for each topic, can we try to provide a short description of what it should contain?
<shaunm> we're looking for things the user says to himself when he's scratching his head
 generally, completions to sentences like "I want to...", "Why is...?", or "What happened to...?"
 philbull: that's a good idea
<philbull> Shall we keep it to "files and folders" too?
<shaunm> yes
 otherwise we'll be all over the place
 "I want to back up my files."
<Gwaihir> do we have a "I want to send this file to one of my contacts"?
<philbull> "I deleted a file - how can I get it back?" (Describe how to open the Trash and restore a file. Explain situations when a file can't be restored.)
<shaunm> Gwaihir: let's not worry about what we have for now
 we'll merge them after the brain juices flow some
<Gwaihir> no no. I meant do we have in the topic brainstorm from chicago
 oh, ok
<shaunm> I'll record everything, then we can come back to each one, as well as things in the chicago list
<Gwaihir> advanced task maybe: "I want to encrypt/decrypt a file for security reason"
<philbull> "Change the name of a file" (Rename a file, various methods.)
<shaunm> see also encrypted volumes, which might be getting into another topic area
 "Find that file I downloaded"
<Gwaihir> "What are all those files with the ~ character?" (explain that some programs create backup copy of files, and left them there)
<DeeJay1> "I want to voice chat with my grandma" (on how to set up empathy or other im client)
<philbull> "How can I mark a file as special, important, or memorable?" (Adding and removing emblems.)
 "Preview a music file by hovering the mouse over it" (Audio preview feature) (Tips and tricks)
<pcutler> "How can I add a folder as a bookmark?" (Adding folders to the shortcut bar in Nautilus)
<philbull> "I lost a file, how can I find it?" (Recent items, search, looking in Trash, explain temporary files so it might be gone forever)
<pcutler> "How do I change the size of the icons?" (or icon view vs list view too)
<philbull> "Send lots of files to someone by packaging them together" (Compressing files and folders into an archive)
<shaunm> "Show hidden files" and "Make a file hidden" (probably advanced)
<philbull> "Where did the list of folders at the side of the window go?" (Explain how to hide and unhide Nautilus sidebar)
 "What does 'mount' mean?" (Explain mounting of removable media)
<shaunm> "I want to spatial mode." ;-)
<pcutler> heh
<philbull> "I want to see lots of files in the window at the same time" (Zooming out, using listview)
<Gwaihir> "I want to check two directories side by side" (the new split view of nautilus)
* Gwaihir thinks that we should vouch for changing the use of 'mount' and 'unmount'
<philbull> "How can I arrange files in a different order?" (Using the Arrange Items option)
<shaunm> "I want to write some files to a CD or DVD"
<Gwaihir> "I want to share files/folders" (creating shared folders)
<philbull> "Select all the files with certain words in their names" (Explain the Select Items Matching dialog) (Tips and tricks)
<shaunm> "Let other users on this machine access my files"
 (permissions and other voodoo)
<philbull> "I want to delete files immediately, without going to the Trash folder" (Using Delete shortcut, adding Delete option to the right-click menu w. Nautilus prefs)
<shaunm> "I want to access files on another computer."
<pcutler> "When I double click a file nothing happens" (mimetypes)
<philbull> "What does MIME type mean? What are Octal Permissions? What's an SELinux context" (Explain terms in the Nautilus Preferences -> List Columns tab)
<shaunm> "I want to free up space on my disk."
<philbull> "Open a program when a disk, CD, or camera is inserted" (Media handling/autorun options)
 "What does inode/directory mean?" (Explain folder right-click menu properties window, Basic tab)
 We need a topic linked to the Help button on the Properties -> Permissions tab
* Gwaihir thinks that (inode/directory) should be nuked from the UI
<shaunm> yes, that should be a more explanatory page, with seealsos to relevant tasks
<philbull> (BTW, shaunm: any progress on the help button + context menu idea we talked about?)
<shaunm> philbull: come to guadec
<philbull> Oh, we need to talk about guadec
<shaunm> (he says, desperately hoping it'll be demoable in time)
<philbull> shaunm: is there going to be some sort of glitzy launch party?
<shaunm> just my presentation, where I'll present it for the first time
 (he says, desperately hoping it'll be demoable in time)
 ;-)
<Gwaihir> :)
 we know it will be!
<shaunm> it's what I was working on right up until this meeting
 are we out of steam on the brainstorm?
<philbull> shaunm: I think so, that's plenty to work on
<philbull> I'll convert it all into Tasks
 http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Tasks
<shaunm> should we go back over them and discuss them?
<philbull> sure
<shaunm> "I want to back up my files."
 multiple ways you could back up, starting with manually copying files somewhere or writing them to a cd/dvd
 probably should make it into a guide so programs like deja dup can add a splash page
<philbull> sounds good
 "Testing a backup"
 "Things to think about when backing-up"
 "How often should I back up?"
<shaunm> good stuff
 (how long are people able stay? we're approaching the one hour mark)
<-- zkriesse has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
<shaunm> "I want to send this file to one of my contacts"
 I'm thinking we should have a guide for "Share files" that this could go into
<Gwaihir> explain the right-click on file and "Send to..." option
<philbull> +1
<Gwaihir> yep
<philbull> "My contact can't open the file"
<shaunm> that comes from nautilus-sendto. should we package this page separately?
<Gwaihir> oh... is it a different package? I thought it was nautilus default...
 if so, it would make sense to have it in its own package
<pcutler> No, Send to works with Bluetooth
 nautilus-sendto just gives you 100 more ways to send stuff than the default
<shaunm> let's just put it in our staging area for now, and tag it. we can decide our level of package granularity later
 pcutler: yeah, but it gives you the menu item and dialog that will be documented on that page
<pcutler> normal nautilus only has 5 options for send to
<shaunm> oh, hum
 ok, let's look into that. no need to dwell on it now
 "I deleted a file - how can I get it back?"
 this is just explaining how to restore from the trash, yes?
 we're not going into file recovery tools for actually deleted files, are we?
--> zkriesse (~zach 173-161-113-147-Illinois hfc comcastbusiness net) has joined #docs
<pcutler> I hope not, that's not really GNOME centric
<philbull> no, but we can mention their existence
 just a sentence would do
<shaunm> "You cannot easily recover a file that was permanently deleted or removed from the trash. There are specialized tools such as ... and ... that may be able to recover some deleted files."
 maybe in a note
 ok
 "I want to encrypt/decrypt a file for security reason"
 I'd say see also encrypting a volume/disk
<philbull> This should be a guide
 Ubuntu has stuff that would need to plug into this
 should explain the concept of encryption too
<shaunm> might be worthwhile to have a separate, generic encryption explanation page
 that different pages can link to
<Gwaihir> we also have seahorse documentation that we can link here
<shaunm> yeah
 that's going to be a fun one to write
<Gwaihir> yeah...
<philbull> We'll make it a task!
<Gwaihir> challenging one!
<shaunm> "Change the name of a file"
 pretty straightforward
 maybe a note about valid characters
 which is basically everything except /, though there are more restrictions if the file is on e.g. a fat32 filesystem
 "I lost a file, how can I find it?"
 I also had "Find that file I downloaded", but I think it boils down to the same thing
<philbull> lots of different methods, I mentioned some earlier
<shaunm> might need to be a guide to plug in stuff like zeitgeist
<philbull> ah, yes
<shaunm> though I think this one is odd as a guide. needs some thought
<philbull> will zeitgeist be in 3.0?
<shaunm> no
 but some distros might ship it anyway, so we should think about how its help can integrate into ours
 "What are all those files with the ~ character?"
<Gwaihir> another good one to write the help for is Zeitgeist
<shaunm> not sure what the click path to this would be
<pcutler> zeitgeist is not in GNOME 3.0
<shaunm> nautilus doesn't show files ending with ~ by default. it considers them hidden
 so maybe this is part of the topics explaining hidden files
<-- DeeJay1 has quit (Ex-Chat)
<Gwaihir> yep
<shaunm> "How can I mark a file as special, important, or memorable?"
 emblems, I guess. I'd like to know if emblems are going to be actually useful in a post-tracker world
 "Preview a music file by hovering the mouse over it"
<philbull> This is marked for Tips and Tricks
 should be quite simple
<shaunm> yes
 "How can I add a folder as a bookmark?"
 for the sidepane in nautilus or the file chooser
 maybe see also to a page for managing bookmarks? there's not a whole lot to manage
 "How do I change the size of the icons?" (or icon view vs list view too)
<philbull> there are quite a few options that let you do this
 we can discuss them all in that topic
<shaunm> "Send lots of files to someone by packaging them together"
 this is provided by file-roller. might need to do this with external plugin pages
 "Show hidden files" and "Make a file hidden" (probably advanced)
 hidden files start with a dot, end with a tilde, or are in .hidden
 putting it in .hidden is the only way to hide without renaming. definitely very advanced
 "Where did the list of folders at the side of the window go?"
 need to think about phrasing/clickpath
 basically for showing/hiding the sidebar, I suppose
 although there's still the spatial/browser dichotomy to deal with
 "What does 'mount' mean?"
<philbull> this could lead to a description of the whole concept of mounting
<shaunm> (I'm just going to put some out here in the interest of time. comment on any of them)
 yeah
 iirc, there's "unmount", "eject", and "safely remove"
 which is confusing, and deserves explanation
<philbull> that's a bug
<-- baptistemm_ has quit (« Beam me up Scotty »)
<shaunm> yeah, well, unless it's fixed, it's a bug we have to document
 "I want to see lots of files in the window at the same time" (Zooming out, using listview)
 I guess that goes with "How do I change the size of the icons"
 "I want to check two directories side by side" (the new split view of nautilus)
 "How can I arrange files in a different order?" (Using the Arrange Items option)
 mention folders-first in a note; there's a preference for it
 "I want to write some files to a CD or DVD"
 brasero, need to think about plugin points
 "I want to share files/folders" (creating shared folders)
 add to the file sharing guide we talked about earlier
 which means the title of the topic needs to be a bit more specific
 "Share files over my local network"?
 "Let other users on this machine access my files" (permissions and other voodoo)
 I think this belongs in the "Share files" guide as well
 are people still in?
<Gwaihir> I'm going offline in a couple of minutes... pretty tired
<shaunm> all right
--- rib is now known as rib_away
<shaunm> I need to go pick up Silke
 should we cut it off here?
<philbull> yes, I think that's enough
<shaunm> I'll send all my notes to the list
 ok
<philbull> I'll convert the notes into tasks