Re: [gnome-cy] The State of Things (was: Gwersyll Cyntaf/Basecamp)

[Kevin Donnelly <kevin dotmon com>]

Hi Dafydd

On Dydd Llun 16 Mehefin 2003 2:42 yb, Dafydd Harries wrote:
> I have something similar, but with GNOME. 

Great.  Do you have a couple of screenshots I can post while I try to get 5 
minutes to get your .mo files running?

> compose.dir? On my Debian machine ...

You don't have this in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/locale?  Interesting.  Debian must 
have some other way of setting up the key-mappings then.

> - added a line "cy_GB.UTF-8 UTF-8" to /etc/locale.gen
> - ran locale-gen
> - exported LANG=cy_GB.UTF-8

Yes, on SuSE you only have to do the last one, really - the rest now seems to 
be set up as default.

> On my system, I can press Shift+AltGr and input character, accent or
> accent, character.

Interesting - here, with Shift+RightCtrl, only the second works, but since it 
IS now working I'm not too fussed as to why :-)

> To which PHP pages are you referring?

Ah - I hadn't noticed that although the KDE pages end in .php, the Gnome ones 
end in .html, even though both look to be using the same system.  Anyway, I'd 
still like to scrape them somehow.

> Recently I've been editing .po files by hand and putting them straight
> into GNOME CVS. I have a page which shows progress in my checked-out
> copies, and a script which generates .tar.gzs of .po and .mo files every

Handy.  You check them out of Gnome into your webserver, and then check them 
out of there into your desktop, or is webserver=desktop?  

> day. Assuming that your system is appropriately set up for Welsh, you
> should be able to get the translations to work just by unpacking the
> cy.mo.tar.gz into the appropriate place, which is
> /usr/share/locale/cy/LC_MESSAGES on my system.

I've downloaded these to experiment with them.  In SuSE they'll go in 
/opt/gnome[2]/share/locale/cy/LC_MESSAGES, I suppose.

> You can find all of this, plus a roughly HTML-ized copy of the glossary, at
> 	http://muse.19inch.net/~daf/gnome-cy

Great - I'll try to work in a link to this.  Do you have a .po file of the 
glossary?  The next thing I want to do is put together a download of 
Omnivore.

> I (and others - namely the #gnome-cy frequenters) have been targeting
> the 2.4 release. The schedule for this release can be found at
> 	http://gnome.org/start/2.3/
> The planned release date is September 10th, with a string freeze on
> August 4th. 

OK - KDE 3.2 is a bit later: string-freeze on 3 November, and release on 8 
December.  I think Basecamp is perfectly doable to meet this.  

> and our progress (in terms of what's actually in CVS) is regularly
> updated at
> 	http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/status/gnome-2.4/cy/index.html

Yes, a link to this on the KGyfieithu front page was one of the changes I've 
just made.

> Some work has been done by Telsa on backporting translation work to the
> 2.2 series. Glib and GTK+ are special cases: GNOME 2.3 (development
> series that will become 2.4) uses Glib 2.2 and GTK+ 2.2. There has been
> a release of GTK+ 2.2 since the translation for it was completed and
> this may be finding its way into distributors' updates soon.

If Telsa can give me a bit more info on the status here, I'd like to put it on 
the site.  I suppose I should probably investigate doing this for KDE 3.1 as 
well, though it seems like too much work!

> The key figure to look at is the percentage of the essential strings
> that have been translated - essential strings are those which are part
> of GNOME proper. Essential strings are ones in either the "developer-libs"
> or "desktop" package groups. At the time of writing, we have completed
> 48.32% of the essential strings, with developer-libs almost complete:

Hmm.  Yes, from the point of view of saying "a Welsh desktop is now available 
on all GNU/Linux distros", this is probably true.  But IMHO, from the point 
of view of an actual user trying to do work in Linux as opposed to 
proprietary systems, you really need a "constellation" of other apps showing 
up in Welsh before you can claim to have a Welsh desktop.  Some of these apps 
(Mozilla, OOo, Rosegarden) are available, but a lot of them are actually 
helper apps which also need to be translated. 

> At the least, GNOME 2.4 should be released with Welsh as a supported
> language (80% of essential translated). Better would be to have 100% of
> essential strings translated and some others (in the "extras",
> "fifth-toe", "office" and "developer-app" package groups) translated
> too. If things go really well, we'll finish 2.3's essentials ahead of
> time, do some backporting and have Welsh supported in 2.2 as well.

Yes, to be listed as "supported", and (presumably) in the box, Gnome needs to 
do another 3690 strings.  To meet the KDE release target, KDE needs to do 
another 5211 strings; 4463 of these are now on the site.

> Of course, we must not forget that there is more to the translation than
> .po files. There is the documentation, and also things like .desktop
> files. It would be nice to have some basic documentation in Welsh for
> 2.4.

Docs are more difficult, certainly, because (a) they're large chunks of text, 
(b) they tend to change frequently as the app is developed, and (c) sometimes 
the developer hasn't written them yet :-).  What I would ideally like to do 
is get *all* the desktop available, along with some best-of-breed apps, and 
then do one-off tutorials or lesson-notes on specific aspects of the apps.  
These could be fed back to the developers, but it would mean you weren't tied 
to translating big wodges of stuff in the meantime.  It would also mean that 
you had pre-digested material available for new users.

Best wishes

Kevin


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