Re: Stock items - toolbar label vs. menu label

Hi Colm,

> I agree that being able to tab into and through an app's toolbar is
> important, but for long toolbars it could increase the effort needed
> to get to, say, the first input widget if that's what you normally
> want to get to.
> Maybe the toolbar's buttons should be logically after the main elements in
> a dialog (in terms of tab order) and we need a shortcut key to move
> the focus to the first toolbar button (with <space> to activate, as usual)?

If Tab takes you to the toolbar, and the second tab takes out out of the
toolbar, then no matter how long the toolbar is, you only incur one addition to
the tab order.  Once in the toolbar, use the arrow keys to move through
them...  Another option is that Ctrl-Tab takes out out of the toolbar, wherever
you are in it (the "escape up a level Tab").

Peter Korn
Sun Accessibility team

> >Delivered-To: gnome-components-list gnome org
> >From: Calum Benson <calum benson sun com>
> >X-Accept-Language: en
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >To: Gtk Development List <gtk-devel-list gnome org>
> >Cc: gnome-components-list gnome org, gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> >Subject: Re: Stock items - toolbar label vs. menu label
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >Havoc Pennington wrote:
> >
> >> I don't really agree with that - perhaps toolbar key navigation
> >> shouldn't be via mnemonics, but certainly it should exist. Calum's bug
> >> report on this in bugzilla suggests that tab-navigation of toolbars be
> >> allowed. But mnemonics make sense to me too for toolbars with text.
> >
> >I think I sit somewhere between the two here... as you say, I do think
> >that toolbars should be focusable/navigable with the keyboard, just
> >because in this day and age it's downright inconsiderate to have large
> >parts of a GUI that aren't.
> >
> >Since toolbars would normally share the same mnemonic context as the
> >application's menu bar, though, I'm not so sure they should generally
> >have mnemonics themselves... unless they only worked (and were shown)
> >when the toolbar had focus, which would be slightly odd and
> >inconsistent. Otherwise, people might quite reasonably expect the
> >toolbar's mnemonic to work whether they had set the toolbar to
> >icons-only or not, and it would be pretty hard to find enough mnemonics
> >to go around both the menu bar and the toolbars in some cases.
> >
> >One alternative might be to offer an optional second row of text under a
> >toolbar button that showed its accelerator, if it had one (Ctrl+X for
> >Cut etc.), but I doubt if that would catch on... GNOME toolbar buttons
> >are fairly elephantine as it is, so it would probably just take up too
> >much screen real-estate considering you can get the same information off
> >the menus.
> >
> >But I could be way off the mark here... maybe some of the folks on the
> >accessibility list have a view on this?
> >
> >Cheeri,
> >Calum.
> >
> >--
> >CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer       Sun Microsystems Ireland
> >mailto:calum benson ireland sun com    Desktop Engineering Group
> >                      +353 1 819 9771
> >
> >Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
> >
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