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Re: [g-a-devel]Representing Accessible Text in gnome-help

Peter,

Comments inserted below.

[SNIP]
> >
> > 1) Run the commannd
> > gnome-help ghelp:///opt/gnome-2.4/share/gnome/help/user-guide/C/wgosnautilus.xml
> > to display nautilus help amd chhose section 1.1 Introduction to
> > Nautilus File Manager.
> 
> First off, I'm getting lots of Glib-GObject-WARNINGS at (gnomehelp:2055) -
> something about an invalid cast from 'HelmlLinkAccessible' to 'AtkObject'
> 

Are you running an AT as well, i.e. gok, gnopernicus or at-poke? I am not seeing these warning messages. It sounds like bug #120659.

> Second, I see no use of relations.  Since you are making a large heirarchy
> of objects for this document, using the flows-from and flows-to relations
> to ensure a screen reader can read the whole document seems like it could
> be important.  Especially when it comes to rendering more complex
> documents with tables and the like.

There is currently no use of relations. I think I need to get the objects right before worrying about the relations. Are you content with the choice of accessible objects used to present the text in this example? I haev attached a dump of the layout structure which is available to me to construct the accessible objects. If so, do you recommend that each object with role text should have flows-from and flows-to relations?

> 
> Third, I wonder about the use of the atk-table widget for the top content
> region object that contains "Previous" and "Next".  Tables are used a lot
> for layout in HTML, and also sometimes for actualy tabular data.  It isn't
> clear to me that we have a foolproof algorythm to determine which use, but
> it would certainly be nice if possible.  At the very least, a screen
> reader shouldn't be telling a user that "Previous" is cell #1 and "Next'
> is cell #2.  That just doesn't make conceptual sense.
> 

Setting the role to TABLE only if the layout object, which is a HtmlBoxTable, has more than one row seems to solves this case. Is that a reasonable algorithm?


> > 2) Run the command
> > gnome-help
> > to display a man page. On Solaris I choose Manual
> > Pages|Applications|X11|dsdm(1x)
> 
> Can you provide the specific command line you used to invoke the man page
> in question?
> 

I run the command gnome-help without any arguments and I get a window containing a link called "Manual Pages". Clicking on that link gives me a window containg a link called "Applications" etc.. Perhaps we should postpone this discussion until we have
finished discussing nautilus help.


Padraig

> Regards,
> 
> Peter Korn
> Sun Accessibility team
Type 0: HtmlBoxRoot DomHTMLElement (0x0017f2a8, 0x0017eb10, 0x00202a18) (0 0 582 733)html 
 Type 1: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x0018750c, 0x0017ec48, 0x00260800) (0 0 582 733)body 
  Type 2: HtmlBoxTable DomHTMLElement (0x0022b328, 0x0017ebe8, 0x00202448) (0 0 566 19)table 
   Type 3: HtmlBoxTableRow DomHTMLElement (0x0022bb30, 0x0017ec00, 0x00202480) (0 2 566 15)tr 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxTableCell DomHTMLElement (0x0022bf38, 0x0017ec30, 0x00192c88) (2 0 280 15)td 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c060, 0x00256380, 0x00202ae0) (0 0 0 0)a 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257290, 0x0025fc80, 0x00202ae0) (0 0 51 15)text 
      Previous
    Type 4: HtmlBoxTableCell DomHTMLElement (0x0022bf98, 0x0017ec18, 0x00201820) (284 0 280 15)td 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c098, 0x00256398, 0x00260670) (0 0 0 0)a 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002572f0, 0x0025fc94, 0x00260670) (253 0 27 15)text 
      Next
  Type 2: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00187688, 0x0017eba0, 0x00212b20) (0 19 566 12)hr 
  Type 2: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00187720, 0x0017eb70, 0x00191ee0) (0 31 566 415)div 
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00187804, 0x0017eb88, 0x002b3eb0) (0 0 566 28)h2 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c0d0, 0x002563b0, 0x002d19b0) (0 0 0 0)a 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257350, 0x0025fca8, 0x002b3eb0) (0 0 316 20)text 
    1.1. Introduction to Nautilus File Manager
   Type 3: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c108, 0x002563c8, 0x002be270) (0 0 0 0)a 
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00187850, 0x0017eb28, 0x002ca720) (0 28 566 57)p 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002573b0, 0x0025fcbc, 0x002ca720) (0 0 26 15)text 
    The 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c140, 0x0017ebb8, 0x002be318) (0 0 0 0)b 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c178, 0x0025a4a8, 0x002b9d50) (0 0 0 0)tt 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257410, 0x0025fcd0, 0x002b9d50) (26 1 64 15)text 
      Nautilus
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257470, 0x0025fce4, 0x002ca720) (90 0 474 15)text 
     file manager provides an integrated access point to your files and applications. 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002537b0, 0x0025fce4, 0x002ca720) (0 16 290 15)text 
    The file manager enables you to do the following:
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x001877b8, 0x0025a4c0, 0x002c9390) (0 85 566 126)div 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x0018776c, 0x0025a4d8, 0x002beba8) (0 0 566 126)ul 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x002489a0, 0x0025a4f0, 0x002bec90) (0 0 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x001876d4, 0x0025a508, 0x002c3370) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002574d0, 0x0025fcf8, 0x002c3370) (0 0 173 15)text 
       Display your files and folders.
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x002489f8, 0x0025a520, 0x002a26b0) (0 21 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x0018763c, 0x0025a538, 0x002a31b0) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257530, 0x0025fd0c, 0x002a31b0) (0 0 179 15)text 
       Manage your files and folders.
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248a50, 0x0025a550, 0x002a32d8) (0 42 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x001875f0, 0x0025a568, 0x002bdba0) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257590, 0x0025fd20, 0x002bdba0) (0 0 67 15)text 
       Run scripts.
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248aa8, 0x0025a580, 0x002cde08) (0 63 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x001875a4, 0x0025a598, 0x00254028) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002575f0, 0x0022ca50, 0x00254028) (0 0 189 15)text 
       Customize your files and folders.
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248b00, 0x0025a5b0, 0x00229b20) (0 84 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x002599b0, 0x0025a5c8, 0x00229c08) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257650, 0x0022ca64, 0x00229c08) (0 0 164 15)text 
       Open special URI locations.
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248b58, 0x0025a5e0, 0x002bf830) (0 105 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x002599fc, 0x0025a5f8, 0x002bf918) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002576b0, 0x0022ca78, 0x002bf918) (0 0 112 15)text 
       Write data to a CD.
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259a48, 0x0025a610, 0x002c14f8) (0 211 566 57)p 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c1b0, 0x0025a628, 0x002c15a0) (0 0 0 0)b 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c1e8, 0x0025a640, 0x00201560) (0 0 0 0)tt 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257710, 0x0022ca8c, 0x00201560) (0 1 64 15)text 
      Nautilus
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257770, 0x0022caa0, 0x002c14f8) (64 0 494 15)text 
     also manages the desktop. The desktop lies behind all of the other components on 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253810, 0x0022caa0, 0x002c14f8) (0 16 466 15)text 
    your visible desktop. The desktop is an active component of the user interface. 
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259a94, 0x0025a658, 0x002c0660) (0 255 566 56)p 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002577d0, 0x0022cab4, 0x002c0660) (0 0 566 15)text 
    File manager windows enable you to display and manage your files and folders. You can open 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253870, 0x0022cab4, 0x002c0660) (0 15 301 15)text 
    a file manager window in any of the following ways:
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259ae0, 0x0025a670, 0x002c7720) (0 311 566 63)div 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259b2c, 0x002c9be0, 0x002cdec8) (0 0 566 63)ul 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248bb0, 0x002c9bf8, 0x002cec60) (0 0 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259b78, 0x002c9c10, 0x002cdfe0) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257830, 0x0022cac8, 0x002cdfe0) (0 0 117 15)text 
       Double-click on the 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c220, 0x002c9c28, 0x002cb1e0) (0 0 0 0)b 
        Type 8: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257890, 0x0022cadc, 0x002cb1e0) (117 0 37 15)text 
        Home
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002578f0, 0x0022caf0, 0x002cdfe0) (154 0 138 15)text 
        object on the desktop. 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248c08, 0x002c9c40, 0x002c0278) (0 21 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259bc4, 0x002c9c58, 0x002c0360) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257950, 0x0022cb04, 0x002c0360) (0 0 48 15)text 
       Choose 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c258, 0x002c9c70, 0x002c4ef0) (0 0 0 0)b 
        Type 8: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002579b0, 0x0022cb18, 0x002c4ef0) (48 0 80 15)text 
        Applications
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00257a10, 0x002cc448, 0x002c0360) (128 0 12 15)text 
       ->
       Type 7: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c290, 0x002c9c88, 0x002cc538) (0 0 0 0)b 
        Type 8: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002532d0, 0x002cc45c, 0x002cc538) (140 0 82 15)text 
        Home Folder
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253330, 0x002cc470, 0x002c0360) (222 0 3 15)text 
       .
     Type 5: HtmlBoxListItem DomHTMLElement (0x00248c60, 0x002c9ca0, 0x002cc1d8) (0 42 566 21)li 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259c10, 0x002c9cb8, 0x002cc2c0) (0 0 556 15)p 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253390, 0x002cc484, 0x002cc2c0) (0 0 226 15)text 
       Right-click on the desktop to open the 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c2c8, 0x002c9cd0, 0x002c90f8) (0 0 0 0)b 
        Type 8: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002533f0, 0x002cc498, 0x002c90f8) (226 0 51 15)text 
        Desktop
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253450, 0x002cc4ac, 0x002cc2c0) (277 0 92 15)text 
        menu. Choose 
       Type 7: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLElement (0x0025c300, 0x002c9ce8, 0x002c9260) (0 0 0 0)b 
        Type 8: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002534b0, 0x002cc4c0, 0x002c9260) (369 0 82 15)text 
        New Window
       Type 7: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253510, 0x002cc4d4, 0x002cc2c0) (451 0 3 15)text 
       .
   Type 3: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259c5c, 0x002c9d00, 0x002c8f10) (0 374 566 41)p 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253570, 0x002cc4e8, 0x002c8f10) (0 0 509 15)text 
    The file manager window displays the contents of your home location in the view pane.
  Type 2: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259ca8, 0x002c9d18, 0x002c8d10) (0 446 566 22)hr 
  Type 2: HtmlBoxTable DomHTMLElement (0x0022b390, 0x002c9d30, 0x002c4480) (0 468 566 34)table 
   Type 3: HtmlBoxTableRow DomHTMLElement (0x0022bb68, 0x002c9d48, 0x002c8b88) (0 2 566 30)tr 
    Type 4: HtmlBoxTableCell DomHTMLElement (0x0022bff8, 0x002c9d60, 0x002c3098) (2 0 224 30)td 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c338, 0x002563e0, 0x00254558) (0 0 0 0)a 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002535d0, 0x002cc4fc, 0x00254558) (0 0 51 15)text 
      Previous
     Type 5: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259cf4, 0x002c9d78, 0x00254630) (0 15 224 0)br 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253630, 0x002cc510, 0x002c3098) (0 15 50 15)text 
     Contents
    Type 4: HtmlBoxTableCell DomHTMLElement (0x0022c058, 0x002c9d90, 0x002c5160) (228 0 111 30)td 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c370, 0x002563f8, 0x0029ded8) (0 0 0 0)a 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253690, 0x002c52a0, 0x0029ded8) (30 0 50 15)text 
      Contents
    Type 4: HtmlBoxTableCell DomHTMLElement (0x0022c0b8, 0x002c9da8, 0x00264710) (341 0 223 30)td 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxInline DomHTMLAnchorElement (0x0025c3a8, 0x00256410, 0x002be510) (0 0 0 0)a 
      Type 6: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x002536f0, 0x002c52b4, 0x002be510) (196 0 27 15)text 
      Next
     Type 5: HtmlBoxBlock DomHTMLElement (0x00259d40, 0x00252a08, 0x002be668) (0 15 223 0)br 
     Type 5: HtmlBoxText DomText (0x00253750, 0x002c52c8, 0x00264710) (87 15 136 15)text 
     File Manager Windows
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