Re: [Gimp-gui] gimp git master branch user interface

[Elle Stone <ellestone ninedegreesbelow com>]

On 05/20/2018 11:49 PM, Jehan wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On 2018-05-21 04:12, Elle Stone wrote:

> > 1. Right now every time I move the mouse over the toolbox in
> > Multi-Window Mode the toolbox text gets brighter (or darker if I'm
> > using the "dark" option), and the toolbox background gets darker (or
> > lighter if I'm using the "dark" option), such that contrast is
> > increased when the cursor is over the toolbox. And the color of the
> > font above the image window also changes.

<snip>

> > 2. Using this GTK3 stuff, my two-pane toolbox is just over 750 pixels
> > wide on my 1600-pixel-wide monitor (far too wide for useability) and
> > neither pane can be made any narrower. By contrast, in GIMP-2.10 using
> > GTK2, the same two-pane toolbox is less than 280 pixels wide, and the
> > right pane can be made arbitrarily narrower.

<snip>

> > 3. Is there some way to change the colors in the GTK3 theme? Right now
> > the choices seem limited to
> >    * "too light"
> >    * "too dark with a hint of green-blue" (color-picks as LCh 14, 4,
> > 221) instead of a neutral dark gray.
> >
> > It looks like the GTK2 GIMP themes weren't ported to git master. Are
> > there plans to port these themes? I like the GTK2 gray theme quite a
> > lot. Is there an actual GTK3 theme for GIMP?

Hi Jehan,

> A note: are you actually planning on working with master? Even though 
> for the last few years, master was absolutely production-usable, this is 
> not the case with new master with GTK+3.

I asked about this on the developer's list, but so far nobody has 
answered. I'll quote from what you said below to the other list thread 
because your answer is quite to the point.

On Linux I'm used to "development" branches that are just as useable as 
releases, and I've been using the "old" GIMP git master since 2013. But 
given the state of the user interface for "new" git master, I'll just 
switch back over to 2.10.

> A lot of stuff is broken on the GTK+3 port. As I write this, I am 
> working on the icon themes for instance which are completely broken.
> This is not production-ready. 

> > Is this the right place to ask about the user interface for gimp git
> > master, now that the gtk3-port has been merged to git master?
>
> It is.
> Not only "ask", but also propose and discuss.

OK, here is some actual input on GTK+3 theming:

GTK+3 makes possible a lot of singing and dancing that doesn't seem to 
happen in GTK+2 - for example, on-hover color changes and 
disappearing/reappearing scroll bars.

For whatever themes are eventually made for "new" git master, please 
make them as close as possible to the current themes for 2.10. The 
themes for 2.10 are awesome, precisely because they stay out of the 
user's way visually.

The only complaint I have about the 2.10 themes is the icons are not as 
easily visually distinguishable as I'd like them to be - maybe because 
I'm too used to the old icons. So I just use one of the old icon sets 
and all is good.

GTK+3's many ways to make the user interface more, umm, I guess 
"interactive" might be the right word, are not suitable for use in an 
image editor because all they accomplish is visually drawing the user's 
attention *away* from the image and *to* the user interface - totally 
counter-productive.

Regarding the "change color on hover" issue, that doesn't happen in SWM. 
It shouldn't happen in MWM. It isn't even consistent - to trigger the 
color changes the mouse has to move over something on the desktop that 
isn't a GIMP window.

Regarding the GTK+3 "disappearing/reappearing scrollbar" that I 
mentioned above, that can be eliminated if one manages to find the right 
syntax to put into the user's GTK+3 config file, which I did to keep 
RawTherapee's scrollbars from disappearing. So this particular "GTK+3 
song and dance" didn't happen in my own install of "new git GIMP". But 
I'm guessing this is because I already spent time searching the internet 
looking for how to eliminate this unwanted GTK+3 "feature" from the RT 
user interface - RT devs didn't put this feature in by default, that 
happens somewhere else in the chain of files that makes up a GTK+3 
theme. But hopefully it can in fact be controlled through a theme 
instead of forcing the user to tweak config files.

When we finally have GTK+3 themes for GIMP, it would be nice to have 
them be as totally awesome as the GTK+2 themes for GIMP 2.10. The 2.10 
themes are pretty to look at, very professional-looking, with no 
flashing, no color changes, nothing that disappears and reappears, 
visually constant as any image editor's user interface should be. A lot 
of thought and planning and work went into those 2.10 themes and it 
would be sad to see the awesome results disappear under the weight of 
GTK+3 song and dance.

> If you want a moving target while still 
> stay usable, build "gimp-2-10" branch (which is old master). I predict 
> it will still stay quite active, much more than what the "gimp-2-8" 
> branch used to be since we will continue to backport features when 
> possible/not too hard.

Yes, that's exactly what I'll do. Thanks much! for the input. I hadn't 
realized just how much I like the 2.10 interface and themes - and how 
vitally important the theme actually is for useability - until firing up 
"new git/GTK+3 GIMP" for the first time.

Best,
Elle