Re: [Gimp-gui] Another failed attempt to use GIMP

[Jehan <jehan girinstud io>]

Hello Duke,

Your email was stuck in the moderation queue. I approved it because you 
are on-topic, but if you wish to make sure you receive responses, you 
should subscribe to the mailing list.

On 2017-02-01 17:52, DUKE Miles D wrote:
> First let me make the image bigger. Can I do that? No, it's impossible
> to drag the border of the image. I've got to dig into some properties
> and enter the new size I want. At least, this was one subtask that I
> successfully completed in less than 10 minutes. Progress!

GIMP is a software for advanced users who often need to have a control 
over their image, and in particular, they want a strict control over the 
finale size of the full image which means you usually don't want this to 
change just with a mouse-over UI. Though there are other use cases where 
this could indeed be a good idea. There are even some very interesting 
cases of auto-growing canvas (or even unlimited-size canvas, like in 
MyPaint).
These are evolutions which we have been thinking about and could happen 
some day, when a contributor decides to propose patches for this.

> Now to move the rectangle. I clicked on rectangle select. So far so
> good. Now try to move it. GIMP decided I wanted to create another
> rectangle.

If you select in the center of the selection, it does work as you want 
(i.e. move the selection). If you select outside though, it indeed 
creates another selection. This way, we make all use cases happy.
If it doesn't work for you, something is wrong. Which version did you 
download?

> · Mistake #1. Once some selects a region of an image, proceed with
> the idea that they want do something with that region, rather than
> select another region. Make some sort of lock option for the people
> who want to select a bunch of regions and operate on those.

Selection is not limited to simple shapes. You can actually create 
selections off various shapes, and do all sort of boolean operations 
(unions, intersect, substract…). You can even edit your selection at the 
pixel level with brushes (with quick mask for instance). This is an 
extremely powerful feature.
That means that we cannot assume anything about what one wants to do 
when staying with a selection tool. We provide some useful UI options to 
move or update a selection without changing tool, as said, but we cannot 
just assume that if you make one selection, that's it, you have to lock 
it, hence blocking all the advanced users who need to do more or want to 
reset the selection.

> Oh, there's a move tool, let me click on that. No, it wants to move
> the entire image.

By default, the move tool moves a layer. In the tool options though, you 
can select the "Layer" mode to have it move the current selection. For 
advanced users, the shortcut is Alt+click (so you don't have to change 
the tool options).

Here again, a choice has to be made. Going into the move tool does not 
necessarily mean you want to move your selection. Many other items can 
be moved (layers, selections, guides, paths…). A default of "Layer" was 
made because it is also a very common use case.

You can read the documentation of the Move tool: 
https://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-tool-move.html
And in particular the transform tools' common options: 
https://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-tools-transform.html#gimp-tool-transform

> OK, select the rectangle, then select the move tool, then try
> dragging. Nope - GIMP wants to move the whole image.
>
> Alright, I saw something about layers while browsing Pat's tutorials.
> Maybe I can make another layer and float it somehow.
>
> Create a layer from Visible. There, now I get the marching ants
> outline around the rectangle. I've got the layer selected. Now I'm
> getting somewhere.
>
> No. Move tool still moves the entire freaking image, and tries to
> leave another copy of the entire freaking image where it had been.
>
> · Mistake #2-4. Why is it impossible to move a region of an image? I
> googled pages that showed Ctrl+Alt + Shift+Alt with drag, but in all
> cases the outcome was anything _OTHER THAN_ my goal.

Did you want to move the selection or the contents of your layer inside 
your selection? It is unclear to me.
If you want to move the selection, as explained above, just set the 
options right or use Alt+click.

If you in fact wanted to move the contents of the selection (which is 
the impression I now have with your last sentence), ctrl+alt+click is 
indeed the right sequence.

This said, a more common way of doing this is cut and paste since 
everybody knows this sequence of actions and usually even the shortcuts 
(ctrl-x and ctrl-v) are the same accross most software.
That is usually thought as quite easily-discoverable feature for this 
reason.

> OK, screw that, I'll just work with text, and try to fit it in the
> available space.
>
> Oh the font background, color and size are wrong. That's fine, I'll
> change them, then move the settings window out of the way. Oh, not it
> reset back to the defaults that I didn't want.
>
> · Mistake #5. When people drag a settings window out of the way, that
> doesn't mean they aren't changing the context of the task they want to
> complete.

I don't really understand what you are saying. What do you mean you 
"move the settings window out of the way"?
This said, the text tool could be definitely improved, nobody will 
disagree. We welcome new GUI ideas and specification proposals to 
implement a better GUI.

> Hmm. I want to align the new text I am creating with the existing text
> in the image. View / Zoom / 400%. OK, now I can see real clearly, but
> the text box settings are now trapped at the top of the image. I
> cannot drag them into view, nor can I scroll the whole window.
>
> · Mistake #6. Text box properties need to float more intelligently
> after zooming.

Yes things could be better if you zoom inside the text layer. But that's 
a very difficult topic actually because the opposite case is also very 
common, with tool's on-canvas GUI being often annoying in various use 
cases. And then you want them out. Being "intelligent" is hard because 
you just can't be in the head of the creator and every use case is 
different and requires a different "intelligence".

Once again, ideas and proposals welcome.
By the way, this mailing list is to discuss user interface and 
experience issues with the goal of solving them. Proposing new design 
ideas for instance. GIMP is Free Software and made by various volunteers 
around the world.
Have a nice day.
Regards,

Jehan

> Anyway, it took me 5 times longer to fail, than it should have taken
> me to succeed, I give up. Downloading Paint.Net now.
>
> Talk to you again in 5 years.
>
> Miles Duke
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-gui-list mailing list
> gimp-gui-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list

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