Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP useability - choosing linear vs perceptually uniform RGB

[C R <cajhne gmail com>]

Elle, I'd be happy to help provide some alternate UI options for for
layers, GEGL, etc. Shall we collaborate a bit on a less cluttered UI
proposal first, then bring it back? I think that's the main sticking point
here. No one seems to be against the actual implementation if we can keep
it simple and out-of-the-way of the average user.

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 12:41 AM, C R <cajhne gmail com> wrote:

> Offering another perspective on this topic, I don't personally care at all
> about switching back and forth for specific operations if the results are
> generally pleasing. Most people learn GIMP, PhotoShop, etc. by using the
> tools and seeing what they do, then using those operations to fit their
> specific workflow. For the average, or even "expert" GIMP users to know
> something isn't right about an operation, they would have had to already
> know the outcome from somewhere else. This is why only a very very small
> subset of users are going to care. They simply didn't know there was a
> difference in the first place.
>
> However I do see the value in adding a drop-down box in the GEGL
> operations where a switch would be most beneficial. You could hide them
> under an "advanced settings" link at the end of each of the appropriate
> GEGL boxes, which could expand to show the "everything and the kitchen
> sink" options that most users will avoid like a breathmint on the sink of a
> public restroom.
>
> This way, there is no restriction, and not really much extra clutter, and
> if you're super explorative about the "advanced settings", you can find out
> what they do and incorporate into your workflow.
>
> I would love to see more options in the layer blending modes, as I use
> them all the time. Heck, you could toss them way down at the end if needed,
> or categorise them by Linear and Perceptual if you want. It doesn't matter
> as long as the most commonly used ones are at the top (maybe the first
> three could be a list of the last three used by the user, for example.
>
> Failing that, why not have the toggles be a separate package that can be
> installed as an addon to GIMP? This way 2.9 can be released asap, while the
> toggle code for each GEGL action is being coded. Seems odd to try to fork
> GIMP just for some toggles. :)
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Robert Krawitz <rlk alum mit edu> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 03 May 2015 02:34:26 -0300, Gez wrote:
> > > El sáb, 02-05-2015 a las 12:40 -0400, Elle Stone escribió:
> > >
> > > > Well, you might be able to answer that question. I'm not qualified.
> > > > Personally I don't use alpha channels except in the extremely rare
> > > > instance when I'm exporting a png with a transparent background for use
> > > > on a website.
> > >
> > > See, this is exactly what I intended to discuss.
> > > You know a lot about linear and perceptual gamma, so in your opinion
> > > everything has to be tailored to allow you to play as you wish with
> > > gamma. For you it is essential.
> > > Now, you think you don't use alpha channels, so you don't care much
> > > about the options provided. But you actually use alpha channels a lot:
> > > every time you create a layer mask you're creating an alpha channel for
> > > that layer, and if that alpha is associated or unassociated makes a big
> > > difference.
> >
> > I agree, but draw a very different conclusion (my conclusion is in
> > line with Elle's).
> >
> > > AFAIK, most of the time alpha channel is unassociated in GIMP, but when
> > > you have to apply any convolution you have to "pre-multiply" it.
> > > And what about alpha channels being linear or perceptual? Why don't you
> > > care?
> > > In that case, developers chose for you, and you don't seem to feel too
> > > bad about it.
> >
> > Right.  The problem is when you're one of the people who *do* care
> > about it.
> >
> > > And believe me, when it comes to alpha channel THERE IS right and wrong,
> > > no matter what the artist says.
> >
> > Perhaps, but someone may have a reason to want a particular workflow,
> > even if that reason is nothing more than demonstrating what's wrong
> > with it.
> >
> > --
> > Robert Krawitz                                     <rlk alum mit edu>
> >
> > ***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
> > Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
> > Project lead for Gutenprint   --    http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
> >
> > "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> > --Eric Crampton
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