Re: Code of Conduct final draft?

[Philip Van Hoof <pvanhoof gnome org>]

Resending this message as it didn't get on the list because I used the
wrong From header.

On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 15:07 +0100, Telsa Gwynne wrote:
> Ar Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 11:57:10AM +0200, ysgrifennodd Philip Van Hoof:

note. Maybe we should take this off the foundation-list? I don't know.

> > I agree and understand the code on that wiki. I would accept cooperating
> > with somebody who does and who doesn't. It's his/her personality and
> > his/her behaviour. It's not me (nor GNOME) to judge it. 
> 
> You are saying that it's not up to you to judge people's behaviour? 
> I judge all the time, and really I bet you do too.

I don't disagree. But this doesn't mean that this is what you and me
should always do.

> And I am really fed up that Murray has worked on this for months, and
> now people are still saying "It's too hard! It's too official! I might
> have a bad day!"

While respecting Murrays work and efforts, while even being happy he's
giving us his opinion and showing the work, I don't see how the amount
of effort somebody puts in something, automatically judges that it
therefore should automatically be accepted.

I do agree it should be discussed. And I'm not saying it's per
definition a bad idea. But I truly believe that the amount of work does
not imply that others shouldn't have an opinion about it.

> No-one is suggesting that you are banned from being rude (unfortunately).

It's your "unfortunately" that is now making me think: this might not be
a good idea. If I want to be rude, it's my freedom to do so. It's the
freedom of somebody else to think of that that I'm an idiot.

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the
death, your right to say it. — Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire"

> That list says "Advice" at the top. And the idea is that those are the
> behaviour that Gnome people think we should be following. It doesn't
> say everyone will always be perfect. It's more about setting a standard. 

I dislike standards for persons, behaviour or personalities. There's no
such thing as a standard for personalities, behaviour and persons.

> I have spent long enough putting up with obnoxious remarks on the net
> (and this most certainly includes aspects of Gnome) and getting really 
> quite upset about some of them.

Telsa, you shouldn't. Just ignore people?

> I don't want to have to do that any more. 
> After a nice rest from IRC and a major trimming of my mailing lists, 
> I decided that life off the net is generally much nicer, and I wonder 
> why I put up with the obnoxious stuff for so long. I no longer want to 
> spend my time trying to interact with people who have no interest in 
> being civil.

I believe 99% of the people on this earth have good intentions. A lot
people just don't know how to express them. Some don't know how to
implement them.

If you don't want to spend your time dealing with the last 1% of the
people, those without good intentions, I can understand. But then just
ignore these people?

> I accept that different cultures have different ideas of 
> courtesy, but why must I accept that it is too hard for supposedly 
> bright people to remember that politeness is a nice thing?

Because people are different and because people have (in my culture and
also in my opinion) the freedom to be different.

-- 
Philip Van Hoof, software developer at x-tend 
home: me at pvanhoof dot be 
gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org 
work: vanhoof at x-tend dot be 
http://www.pvanhoof.be - http://www.x-tend.be