Re: [Evolution] delete mail should move to trash

[Jeffrey Stedfast <fejj ximian com>]

On 03 Jul 2001 21:15:49 +0800, Bill Kenworthy wrote:
> I would also agree with this.  I am using Evolution with imap and can
> compare it with both netscape and the same version of Evolution on
> another machine using /var/spool/mail/"user".  Netscape moves a file to
> trash when deleted.  This allows one to use trash as a backup mailbox
> without cluttering up the inbox, allbeit with invisible deleted
> messages.
>
> For instance, I use the "mail and clock applet" operating on the local
> spool file, The message count goes down by the number of messages
> deleted when netscape exits or compacts the folders.  

What's so different about Netscape compacting a folder and Evolution
expuning a folder? It's the same damn thing. But guess what, when
Netscape deletes a message, it leaves the original copy in the folder!
That means there are 2 copies of that message on your drive!!
The way Evolution does it, not only is it faster because we don't have
to do disk I/O, but we also don't waste disk space!

Wow! Why would anyone want to do it the traditional way if you gain so
much more doing it The Evolution Way (tm)?

> The mailbox
> Evolution also decrements the count when a message is deleted.  However,
> under imap, the count stays there until trash is emptied which means
> that the messages are lost unless laboriously copied elsewhere. 

Uh, listen to what you're saying. "My deleted messages are still there
until I empty the Trash, but if I empty the Trash then my deleted
messages are gone!"

Duh.

Also, if you really want to hold on to your deleted messages, then
should they really be "deleted" in the first place? The Trash folder is
sort of like a temporary deleted zone in case you accidently delete a
message you want to retrieve back.

Whatever imap mail-check/count applet you're using is broken because
it's counting messages even if they are flagged for deletion or else you
are reading too much into what it's actually doing.

> Its also
> worth noting that using a filter to copy deleted messages somewhere safe
> before emptying the trash does not work on imap mail - they just totally
> dissappear.  Consistant behaviour - preferably using the same as with a
> local mail directory is desperately needed here 

What's not consistant with how we do it? We have a virtual Trash folder
for both IMAP *and* Local mailboxes. How is that inconsistant?

> as my workplace looks
> like they will be implementing an imap server which will put evolution
> at a real disadvantage to netscape mail.

How will it put Evolution at a disadvantage? Because your mail-check
applet doesn't work properly?

Evolution's vTrash folders are actually *faster* than it would be to
move the message to a Trash folder on the server because we aren't
having to constantly move messages back and forth.

Example:

Say you have a 10,000 messages in your IMAP INBOX and you delete a
message. Well, if we were to use your method for deletion, then this is
what we'd have to do:

1. Tell the server to COPY the message to it's Trash folder (this
requires the IMAP server to grab the message from the INBOX and then
write it out to the Trash folder. That's a bit of I/O on the server
side).

2. We'd then have to tell the server to mark the original message as
\Deleted (pretty fast operation, or so it should be)

3. Then we'd have to tell the server to EXPUNGE the INBOX folder. This
requires the IMAP server to parse out each and every non-deleted message
from INBOX and write it to a temp file. In the case of a huge INBOX,
this is a VERY expensive operation. I was doing some mass-cleanup of my
80,000 message INBOX just the other day and an EXPUNGE takes quite a
while with wu.imapd (other imap servers may be faster). But it was
incredibly slow. Unbearably slow. Do you REALLY want to go through this
unbearably slow operation every damn time you delete a message? I think
not.


The Evolution Way (tm):

1. Tell the server to mark the message as \Deleted

That's it. And that's the fastest operation of the 3 above!

So tell me again why you want to suffer everytime you delete a message?

Oh, and as an added benefit of doing it The Evolution Way(tm), when you
Undelete a message, it goes right back to exactly where it was in the
first place. Does your method of deleting a message allow that? I think
not.

Jeff