Re: Shapes layout proposal

[Andre Kloss <kloss rbg informatik tu-darmstadt de>]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, James K. Lowden wrote:

> I take the silence from everyone else to be anything this side of
> "are you nuts?"  That is, they either agree or are taking a
> wait-and-see approach. 
Well, in my case, it's rather the "agreed" approach, but I seem to
have lost the line of discussion.

> [Gtk tables]
> I'd like to see support for them in the UrShape DTD.
I think, whatever suits our needs, but if we can go with [hv]boxes, we
should focus on that first and add tables later, since I don't see any
additional useful feature they provide if you already have [hv]box.

> [UrShape behaviour]
In 1 sentence: Every UrShape should behave the same unless declared
otherwise (in Code!).

> We need to focus some more attention on this.  Hand in hand with
> defining the DTD, we have to define a C or C++ behavior interface.  
> Since I'm doing the talking at the moment, I'll use my preferred
> terms: the shape is an object, and the object has properties and
> methods.  The methods create behavior; the properties hold named
> attributes and the attributes hold data.
I'm with you so far. Only one thing: What do we need attributes
for? (Unless you mean the coordinates or the text in a textbox)

> I'll next define such an object notionally in C++ for us, and then
> we can see how my idea of a header file mates to your idea of a
> DTD.  That will have the merit of concreteness and will win us
> either loud acclaim (!) or cat calls, eh?
If it does what you say, you have my ovations ;)

> [standard objeeect management]
> Serialization is only one example of such management.
Yes, but it's the example we'll need first, I presume.

> From my perspective, the library that gets the UrShape off the
> disk and into an instantiated object is the object to use.  I'm
> still hoping 1) not to do this alone and 2) not to write the I/O
> code.  The latter because I've done it so often it would feel like
> work (or sleep).  I assume I won't be parsing the XML.  I assume
> some library will do that for me.
Doesn't libxml do the parsing? Do you mean gfxIO or fileIO? Sincee
I'll need exactly the same thing (parsing xml into an instanciated
object) for my diploma thesis, I'll lend a hand anyway. I just fire up
my Search Engine and look for a lib that does the work for us. Hang on
a few minutes... ;)

> Will one of the elders please tell me, Did I find the right
> GObject and is there any reason not to use it for what we're doing
> here?
Is GObject within the GNOME stuff? Or is it gtk2.0? Since dia builds
with just gtk (If you lack GNOME or gtk2), it may be unwanted to add
these bindings to the core, since it would require users to update
their libs.

> The next thing you'll see from me (besides vacuous witless
> arguments) is a .h file declaring an UrShape class.  It will have
> the following qualities: [zip]
Well formed. Can't wait to see this.

> The logical step from there would be a standalone (non-Dia)
> prototype to work out the I/O and dynamic attribute dialog.  All
> the prototype would do is load an UrShape into memory, open a
> dialog box to edit the data, and save the new data.
I figure I could implement some of this stuff without digging too deep
into the source. Wait a sec... You mean a dialog like the property
dialog of some shape sets like UML? What for? There are exactly 3
informations to store within a UrShape: a) the geometry or in case of
a textbox the written text, b) visibility (just a bool, sir) and
c) the place where to put the included subUrShapes(TM) ;) (And maybe
how much subUrShapes(TM) are included...like (0..*)). All off them can
be changed by means of direct manipulation of the diagram, so no
dialog is needed. Or am I mistaken?

> [kirk quote zapped]
> One cautionary note.  This is not going to happen at warp speed.  
> I have kids and a life and vacation in August.  I'm aiming for as
> little wasted motion as possible, of necessity, and something
> useful by Christmas.  I wouldn't anyone thinking we should hold up
> .90 for my castles in the sky, you see (not that I was worried).
Well, if I can speed things up a bit, I'll help wherever I can. Since
my diploma remains to be finished until september, I'm eager to help.

> I'm being definite with a purpose.  I figure if I'm out of line
> the Dia boot camp, er, community will put me back in line and give
> me my teeth back.
Well, you still have your teeth, do you?

> How's that sound to you, John?  Lennon, Andre: you interested?
More of this, please. I hope I can better get into this with the .h
file.

> --jkl
cu Andre
-- 
Tolerance rulez, everything else sux! -- Andre Kloss