Re: Some points about IM integration

[Ma Xiaojun <damage3025 gmail com>]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Marguerite Su <i marguerite su> wrote:
> no offense, but if Chinese or CJK Community is "a small group"(I think
> I've already be clear about what CJK users are doing today. they'are
> the nowadays tweakers you called. why? because you didn't ship what
> they want. you know, IM is the most famous workaround in i18n world),
> GNOME Asia can be shutdown.
AFAIK, GNOME never maintained a distro. Some distros don't maintain
CJK input well. That's why some people tweaks. So why not solve the
CJK input problem in GNOME and you packagers can have a rest?

> so is Chinese or CJK Community "a small group" or "second class"? say
> that in public in Hong Kong.
> so do not make any hypothesis you don't even know about.
> I've heard enough of this and feel great disrespect.
> assume: if "world factory" think, "oh, english users has little
> feedback in Chinese. so they're a small group". then ship any kind of
> clothes, shoes they like to Europe market. will you buy it?
> absolutely and apparently no.
> then that's the case GNOME will face.
I haven't seen any FOSS projects have this kind of mindsets.
Complaint is not always bad.
Please show people a link or something so motivated people can help
solving problems.

> I've also heard enough of "oh, then the only solution is to drop
> GNOME" in Chinese Community about this affair.
> I'm okay about it. they're users, I as a packager can't force they
> choose what they like.
> and today they still, although the choice range is becoming narrower
> but still, have choices. KDE/xfce.
> I'm okay about it. no matter what they will use, they're still my
> target as a packager.
> but can you be okay about it?
> can you even dare a little bit to say "CJK is not important"? no.
> then pretty much GNOME developers will leave GNOME tomorrow.
> that's the worst case we both never want to see it ever happens.
> if no users/local developers, who will you develop an IM for?
> sorry for my wording, but it really drives me crazy.
> I think mutual respect is the basis for multi-culture communication.
I'm tired of this kind of arguments. When some people see
regression/breakage, they just switch to other things without think
twice. I don't this is the way any local or global FOSS community
should work. I try to report a bug for FOSS whenever I'm sure there is
a problem.

> yes and no. your will is good and respectful.
> but have you ever discussed it with downstream distributions?
> I cc-ed openSUSE GNOME Community leader, Vincent, to see what he will
> think on this.
> yes, I agree and thanks for, some of GNOME applications are god-like
> good, but GNOME itself is not GOD to make decisions for
> users/distributions/others.
> or maybe tomorrow you would like to say "oh, we should take
> responsibility to write a new kernel, we should take responsibility to
> reinvent YaST2"? that's what you think arrogantly and will certainly
> do if you find upstream doesn't accept you proposal.
> "want to take responsibility" is under the hypothesis that "the ones
> who nowadays had already taken responsibility want to share." but have
> you ever asked?
> no. at least Vincent will feel surprised on this.
> who will judge "the right experience"? users themselves.
> so what if they do not even ever want/like your
> over-responsibility-driven product?
> that's the case right now.
> "oh, we should take responsibility to ship an IM we think users like",
> while actually a large  group of its users are using and will use a
> totally different tool.
> what you think, does not, and will not, even ever matters.
> that's what distributions nowadays are doing. and users said, say and
> will say, "I like it".
> they enjoy this freedom feeling.
> "I think tomorrow I will be a millionaire" doesn't make any sense.
> do respect reality.
Whether GNOME, as an international FOSS project, can make CJK input
better or worse in this integration process is highly dependent on
whether there is effective participation of native CJK users. This
need efforts from both sides. But I'm enthusiastic about that.