Re: autotools gives autopain

[Gaute Hope <eg gaute vetsj com>]

BJörn Lindqvist wrote:

> (Sorry for the inflammatory subject, it is meant to be
> humoristic. Although it's true :))
>
> Gnome currently uses the GNU Autotools for building all
> projects. Autotools is hard to work with and complicated and there are
> lots of techically superior build systems out there. Therefore, I
> suggest that GNOME should gradually replace Autotools with scons
> (www.scons.org). My arguments are:
>
> 1. Scons is simply technically superior to GNU Autotools - with a big
>   margin.
>
> 2. Scons is simple to learn, Autotools is not.
>
> 3. KDE has already migrated to scons.
>
> I suggest people give scons a try and it will become apparent how good
> scons is (and how bad autotools is). Now my counter-arguments to the
> counter-arguments I'm sure people will come up with:
>
> 1. Autotools have worked so far, why switch?
>
>   - Because scons is easier and better. In the long run the benefits
>     of a good build system outweighs the disadvantages of switching
>     to it.
>
> 2. Autotools supports a huge number of platforms.
>
>   - scons does too. Albeit maybe not as many. But it will, if major
>     projects like GNOME adopts it.
>
> 3. Autotools have been a standard tool for over a decade. Scons is new
>   and have not gone through the rigorous testing and enhancement
>   Autotools has.
>
>   - That is true, but if everyone used that logic nothing would ever
>     change because everyone would stick to the proven and
>     true. Besides, if KDE dares to switch, why wouldn't GNOME?
>     http://dot.kde.org/1126452494/
>
> 4. Wouldn't this make building GNOME depend on Python? For some reason
>   I can't/don't wanna install Python.
>
>   - Yes. But every modern Linux distro comes with Python
>     pre-installed. And if it isn't installed, installing it manually
>     should be easy enough. If your system is so ancient that Python
>     won't install, then odds are that GNOME won't compile
>     either. Besides why would you wan't the latest and greatest GNOME
>     on such an old machine?
>
> 5. The migration to SCons will be really painful.
>
>   - Let's look at how KDE managed and learn from them. No change is
>     without a price, but going from autotools to scons is worth it. I
>     imagine that the transition can happen gradually and that the old
>     build system will be retained for a while then deprecated and
>     finally removed.
>
> 6. I'm not a big fan of Python...
>
>   - Then try it. :) If you still are not a fan of Python then please
>     realise that there are many more fans of Python than there are
>     fans of the m4/POSIX sh/make language combination...
>
> I hope my arguments are very convincing and not inflammatory. Let's
> get some good discussion going.
>
> --
> mvh Björn
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>
>  
Sounds really nice, I have noticed more projects have started to use 
scons, and I have always had problems setting up autotools.. I will 
definetly try it out with whatever next thing i try to make.

- gaute