Re: END OF THREAD, GO HOME

["Jason A. Pfeil" <pfeil 10east com>]

Hmmm...Jeff, mebbe it's time to create a list specifically for this type 
of argument?  That way it can be taken off of this list where it is no 
longer germane?

Just a thought.  That way constructive debate about politically 
sensitive issues can still happen but in a forum in which it is more 
germane?

:-)

--Jason

Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Damon Chaplin">
>
> > > I can do a song and dance, or we can end the thread with my dignity
> > > intact.
> >
> > I don't think bullying people into stopping discussion is a reasonable way
> > to determine Gnome policy. This is an important issue - we are considering
> > banning something from Gnome. It is bound to be controversial.
>
>
> I am offended that you would describe my offer to sing and dance as
> "bullying". If you could only see my grace and subtlety in action, you would
> be mesmerised.
>
>
> > I'll try to summarize the issue:
> >
> > Against flags:
> > 	o We know that the Chinese government doesn't want the Taiwan
> > 	  flag shipped in China.
> > 	o There may be problems with other flags now or in the future
> > 	  and so flags may be more trouble than they are worth.
> > For flags:
> > 	o They can improve usability of applications.
> > 	o If we stick to flags from the UN/Olympics we avoid most of the
> > 	  problems with regional flags and other little-known flags,
> > 	  including the Nazi flag and Palestine.
> > 	o Flags are used in quite a few places already, such as sport,
> > 	  and on the web, even in Google:
> > 	  http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
> > 	o Flags are already used in KDE and in Mac OS X.
>
>
> Flags are also removed from KDE by various distros, while Mac OS X uses
> particular flags and logos (which are far more usable than flags in the
> situations we're discussing in first place).
>
>
> > I don't quite understand why some people seem to think it is a clear-cut
> > issue. There are obviously valid points on both sides of the argument.
>
>
> "shippable vs. unshippable"
>
>
> > It looks likely that we won't form a consensus. But constructive debate
> > should not be quashed.
>
>
> The threads are long and meandering, and some people have shown very little
> effort to read previous discussions about it (recent and historical). It is
> not an attempt to quash the debate, it's an attempt to stave off a pointless
> regurgitation of previous discussions.
>
> As far as I can see, the conclusion from the previous thread (and this
> thread, oddly enough), was that we ship without flag images in the GNOME
> tarballs at all, but allow distributors to add a flags module should they
> choose to (and hopefully come up with a more usable and less controversial
> solution later on).
>
> - Jeff