Re: Alt and Meta (Was: Nautilus bugs and design choices)

[Michael Toomim <toomim uclink4 berkeley edu>]

Gregory Merchan wrote:

> So what are the troubles that people are having? What is causing them?
> Is it particular apps? Some distribution? X? Bad hardware?

I think the problem is *not* that one can't set up a keyboard to have 
separate alt and meta keys, but that most applications are designed for 
a single <LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> key, and don't care whether it's alt or meta.

The issue, I think, is just that traditional unix keyboards labeled the 
<LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> key "meta", and PC's label the <LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> key 
"alt".  When the PC started running unix, this inconsistency had to be 
dealt with, and so most distributions and applications made the alt key 
behave as meta.

Then, PC keyboards started coming out with windows keys.  A few people 
(a minority of the unix distributors) looked at this situation and 
decided that the <LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> keycap says "alt", and so it should 
trigger the modifier called "alt" in X, and that the key no longer has 
to emulate the "meta" modifier because the windows key can emulate 
"meta" instead.

But there's a problem with this.  Unix terminals often have another key 
to the left of the meta key labeled "alt".  This is where the windows 
key goes on PC keyboards.  By making the <LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> key "alt", 
and the windows key "meta" for PC's, you make the buttons have opposite 
effects of the keys in the same positions on unix keyboards.

In the end, the only key that unix applications generally care about is 
meta -- and they intend meta to be the <LEFT_OF_SPACEBAR> key, which is 
much easier to hit than the windows key is.  Thus, the key labeled "alt" 
on PC keyboards really *should* behave as meta.  Furthermore, this 
duality has caused a lot of unix users to just think of "alt" and "meta" 
as synonims.  Many applications (like emacs), will pretend that alt is 
meta, if there is no separate meta key apart from alt.

So the right thing to do, IMHO, is to make the "alt" key meta on PC's, 
and the windows key "hyper" or something new.  Making the windows key 
meta or alt just confuses everything.  It's a lot easier when alt and 
meta are two names for the same thing.