Re: [orca-list] Keybindings for ARIA landmark roles

[Krishnakant <hackingkk gmail com>]

Hi Will,
If performance is going to be so much of an issue with landmarks, then
out of my accessibility research i would suggest that orca at least say
"page has landmarks " as a message.

What is important is that the user knows that there are one or more
landmark on the page the facility will be usefull with reference to this
page.

I think at least this might not be a payoff on performance?

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.
 
On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 13:25 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> We hear your desires loud and clear and are looking at ways to make this 
> performant.  Right now, it can take a very long time to gather this 
> information, however, and we have decided to err on the side of trying 
> to reduce the number of things that slow Orca down.
>
> BTW, counting up all the landmarks on a page has the potential to be a 
> very expensive operation -- much worse than counting up thing like 
> links, headings, etc.
>
> As I mention, however, we are looking at ways to potentially make things 
> more performant in Orca, which could give us a performance boost overall 
> and open the door for other things like the above.
>
> Will
>
> Steve Holmes wrote:
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> > I agree; I would not only want to know some characteristics of the
> > page but also be told when I navigate into things like forms or
> > tables.  Especially tables because then you know you can start using
> > the table navigation features.  But this probably  slightly off topic
> > from this thread but since the page contents issue came up...
> >
> > I have run into Krichnakant's situation numerous times when trying to
> > find headings.  I guess one could press the numpad-enter key twice to
> > hear the counts and your landmarks count could go in there.  But I
> > forget half the time to hit that key sequence but that does get us
> > around having to have it built in the page loading sequence.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:25:57PM +0530, Krishnakant wrote:
> > > hi will,On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 10:14 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:
> > > > Hi Krishnakant:
> > > >
> > > > Determining if there are landmarks can be an expensive operation and can 
> > > > slow performance down.  So, it might be best to only do landmark 
> > > > operations when the user explicitly requests them.
> > > But how does user know if there are area landmarks defined by the
> > > designer of that page in the first place?
> > >
> > > The first rule of Accessibility with Human Computer Interface Design is
> > > to facilitate user's anticipation about the structure of the page.
> > >
> > > For example Imagine if there is a large page and I want to know if there
> > > are headings.  Now, i press h and i wait for a few secons or more
> > > depending on the size of the page, just to hear "wrapping to top, no
> > > more headings found ".
> > >
> > > Had I known that the page has 0 headings, I won't try the command in the
> > > first place which any ways gave orca a performance hit.
> > >
> > > Same thing will apply for landmarks and I believe every one agrees that
> > > on a big page, orca will take a performance hit and would slow down the
> > > system and overall response because orca will scann the entire page for
> > > the structural element which the user are trying to search.
> > >
> > > happy hacking.
> > > Krishnakant.
> > > > In any case, what I'm hearing is that you are joining the list of users 
> > > > who want default keybindings.  Do you think the 'm' key is reasonable 
> > > > for this?
> > > >
> > > > Will
> > > >
> > > > Krishnakant wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 09:46 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Krishnakant:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The content provider provides the landmarks as part of the markup.  What 
> > > > > > the Orca feature does is allow the users to navigate between them quickly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will
> > > > > hi will,
> > > > > this works perfectly.
> > > > > Just a quick suggestion, as soon as the user lands on a certain web
> > > > > page, we must announce if there are landmarks set by the page designer
> > > > > so that the user knows that the move to landmark (next and previous )
> > > > > can be useful on this page.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since orca is locating landmarks, i believe orca knows that there are
> > > > > defined landmarks on the page.
> > > > > I believe this is the way the scrip for mozila works?  or is it that the
> > > > > first time user presses the move to next landmark key that orca finds if
> > > > > there are any landmarks?
> > > > >
> > > > > happy hacking.
> > > > > Krishnakant.
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