Re: [orca-list] Blockquotes?

[Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis googlemail com>]

Hi Hermann

Now I'm confused. When skipping to the next text, Window-Eyes reads some 
text from inside links and not other text. How does reading the title 
attribute from abbr inside links help? I thought the whole point was to 
skip over links. But if it is a desired behavior, what other text from 
inside links should be read? e.g. do we want to read image alternative 
text? And if we are going to read text from inside links when skipping 
in this way, hadn't we better come up with a better description for the 
process than skipping to the next non-link text, since we'd only be 
skipping over some parts of links and not others?

A better algorithm would only be relevant if the only purpose of this 
sort of skipping is avoiding long navigation lists. Is this the only 
purpose? If so, for example, we could think about providing a skip 
navigation key or something, looking for clumps of three or more links 
by themselves. The Firefox Accessibility Extension has navigation 
functionality for moving between different lists of navigation.

I agree functionality for headings and tables is part of the beef. 
However, recognition (i.e. telling you what something is) and navigation 
(moving to the next instance of a something or listing a group of things 
for you to pick one) aren't the same things. Navigating between headings 
is more crucial than recognizing <blockquote>. Yet being able to 
recognize headings without being able to navigate between them wouldn't 
be nearly as useful; indeed it would perhaps be less crucial than being 
able to recognize <blockquote>, since the purpose of <blockquote> is to 
attribute text to somebody else and failing to grasp what is actually a 
quotation can lead to severe communication failures. Whereas a heading 
without associated navigation capabilities is ultimately just more text. 
When specifying features for inclusion, it's helpful to be clear about 
whether one is talking about mere recognition or some additional 
functionality.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

Hermann wrote:
> The textblock scheme is the very same in Jaws and Window-Eyes, and WE's 
> behavior is not at all a bug. It has been set up to odd default values, 
> while Jaws uses a reasonable value. I don't care about the keystroke, I 
> want 
> to see it work. And if you know a better algorithm to implement it, please 
> contact the Orca team.
> The background information provided by WE seems sufficient, I think we 
> should not extend it.
> The frame information is under Windows either provided by the DOM 
> mechanism or by MSAA; the latter seems to give better results (WE). Since 
> there is no MSAA in Linux, the information can be obtained either by FF's 
> DOM or by AT-SPI, if possible. I think it should be checked out what's 
> better. Properly labeled frames are no problems (WE manual), but that's not 
> usual on many pages, so the task is to get as much useful information as 
> possible.
> If the team, with your assistance, manage to refactor the "large object" 
> stuff, so that a common user understands it, OK!
> An BTW: Recognizing headings and tables is more important then block quotes 
> - they belong to the "beef".
> Hermann