Re: Orca accessable web browser with orca

[Krister Ekstrom <krister kristersplace ws>]

Hi, and sorry to intrude in this debate, but how do you tackle the
problems with navigating around amongst radio buttons in Elinks? The
reason i ask is that when i use cursor to navigate a group of radio
buttons, the wrong button tends to be selected. I know that this is
off-topic so please forgive me for asking, i was just curious.
/Krister


Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
> Labrador wrote: 
> 
>> I like very much the "*some*": please try getting logged into a router 
>> with both lynx, elinks or links2, netrik, w3m, edbrowse... 
> 
> Mentioning Lynx seems beside the point seeing as the developers have no
> intention of adding JavaScript support. What makes my Netgear router web
> interface hard to use with ELinks-with-spidermonkey is not the
> JavaScript but the frames. A quick test suggests it's not impossible
> though.
> 
>> then we will for sure better understand why people need FF (and so Orca). 
> 
> I'm not really sure who or what you're arguing against. Not only am I in
> favour of making Firefox accessible with Orca, but I've tried to make it
> easier to install the Fire Vox extension and I've contributed a minor
> patch of my own to Orca's Gecko handling. But the Orca and Firefox
> experience isn't perfected yet.
> 
>> IMHO it's absurd to advise using a console-browser from within Orca as long as it's much 
>> easier, faster and efficient to do ctrl+alt+F? to use console apps under
>> the console
> 
> You may think it's absurd, but as I mentioned some prefer using Orca
> with Gnome Terminal to ctrl+alt+F anyway.
> 
>> I don't believe elinks will one day be as performant as 
>> Mozilla/Firefox/Opera browsers in Js and Flash support. 
> 
> JavaScript performance in ELinks itself should be very close to that of
> Firefox because ELinks is using SpiderMonkey, Mozilla's own JavaScript
> library. Browsers also expose subsets of browser functionality to
> JavaScript, varying from browser to browser; ELinks has less equivalent
> functionality to expose than most graphical browsers. What ELinks is
> currently lacking is real DOM support for use with scripts, but as I
> understand it the developers are in the gradual process of adding this.
> 
> Technically it is possible to launch the standalone Flash Player from
> ELinks to open Flash objects, although it doesn't work very well because
> ELinks downloads the Flash file to a temporary directory and runs the
> Player on that. But as far as I can tell, Flash support is currently
> useless for Orca users except for playing audio, since:
> 
> 1. Gnash (the GNU Flash project) have neither implemented any of the
> ActionScript accessibility classes nor exposed the Gnash plugin to
> AT-SPI, the GNOME accessibility framework. The developers are currently
> focused on getting video streaming operational. See the Request for
> Enhancement I logged with Gnash at:
> 
> https://savannah.gnu.org/support/?105660
> 
> 2. Adobe does not expose Flash functionality to AT-SPI.
> 
> 3. Adobe does not expose Flash Player plugin functionality to the
> Microsoft Active Accessibility framework in Firefox or Opera on Windows,
> although they do in Internet Explorer. Until this changes, Adobe support
> for Flash accessibility on Linux seems unlikely, I'm sorry to say.
> 
> For more details see this thread on the Mozilla accessibility
> development list:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/y68flt
> 
>> The goals is IMHO to take profit from graphical apps thanks to Orca, 
>> and to use graphical browsers since it's worldwide known that their 
>> console-counterpart fail in JS, Flash, etc.
> 
> Using graphical browsers is a means not an end, surely.
> 
>>> There are also patches to make W3M use JavaScript, although they're now
>>> at least four years old.
> 
>> W3m is quite userunfriendly/blindunfriendly (I'm a real 
>> lynx addict and cannot work without "numbered links and form fields" + 
>> the "cursor showed".
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "cursor showed". As for W3M being blind
> unfriendly, it is sometimes used with Emacspeak. And when used under
> Emacs, there appears to be a link-numberer:
> 
> http://emacs-w3m.namazu.org/ml/msg06518.html
> 
> --
> Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
> 
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