Re: using Gnome-Shell with 90% of all applications is absolute garbage.

[kaddy080 gmail com]

I can 2nd that......
I am disappointed with Gnome 3.0's current status and what was suppose to be a seamless transition from Gnome2xx (as quoted at beginning of gnome 3 development)
has turned out to be less than impressive..... 
Don't get me wrong... I feel also that it was time that Gnome innovates in order to remain revelent in the Gui OpenSource world after we have all watched Kde innovate and improve over the years with a Modern sleek very useable Desktop full of Features and eye candy....... And then Gnome 3.0 comes along after all this development and it doesn't seem ready at all for wide user adoption. I wish it was held back another 6 months to be honest...  So far it is buggy, featureless and purposely dumbed down..... It does look Amazing though, I will give it that.... but the user experience in Gnome 3 is less than pleasing.....

In saying that... I know that over the next few months people will start making themes, extensions/addons that will improve the overall Desktop experience..... and hopefully these mutter issues conflicting with 3d acceleration etc will be sorted out soon.....  (holds breathe) :)
It may take a Year or Two until gnome 3 sorts itself out I reckon..... until then I'm rather enjoying my kde 4.6 experience :)

kaddy

On , jordan <triplesquarednine gmail com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> i usually do not like to post negative comments, but in this case i
> 
> think it is about time, and it is warranted.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been a long time gnome-user (around 7years). I have always
> 
> enjoyed gnome's interface and flexibility, and have used it as my
> 
> primary desktop, with absolute loyalty. I may try out other desktop
> 
> environments, but that's as far as it goes. I prefer Gnome :) Also to
> 
> note here;  I use Linux for both work and at home, so both
> 
> professionally and for pleasure, as my primary desktop ( i also
> 
> dual-boot with MacOSX, as well at home).
> 
> 
> 
> Aside from some more Sys-admin / web-dev stuff at one of my Jobs, i
> 
> mainly use linux for 2 types of applications, aside from the obvious
> 
> stuff like Web, email, etc.
> 
> these types of applications go as follows;
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Graphic Design/animation/video processing
> 
> 
> 
> the applications i tend to use;
> 
> 
> 
> a. Autodesk Maya - for those of you not familar, it is the
> 
> professional animation suite used as the industry standard. think
> 
> Pixar, Dreamworks, etc.
> 
> b. Cinepaint - fork of Gimp, geared at Photography and film. Cinepaint
> 
> supports a number of features and formats that gimp cannot.
> 
> c. Mypaint - digital painting.
> 
> d. Cinelerra-monty - a fork of cinelerra, a video editing suite. But
> 
> monty supports 1080p and some other handy new features too
> 
> e. Processing - an interactive programming environment geared at
> 
> designers and digital artists.
> 
> 
> 
> (you get the idea)
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Pro-audio / recording
> 
> 
> 
> a. Ardour2/3 - multi-track editor
> 
> b. Renoise - music composition, tracker interface
> 
> c. Fst/wine-rt - to support Windows VST instruments
> 
> d. LinuxSampler - sampler
> 
> e. Jack-audio-connection kit
> 
> 
> 
> (this 2nd llist could go on forever).
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, from the applications and usages - you can probably imagine
> 
> i have some "stiff requirements" both of how the kernel and linux's
> 
> backend is configured,
> 
> and in very much the same fashion - how my desktop is managed. these 2
> 
> types of applications, will accept no less. not if you plan on getting
> 
> any real work done on a stable system...I'm going to try to outline a
> 
> few real problems with gnome-shell, that i don't see going away any
> 
> time soon, if ever. Which is a big deal to anyone who actually uses
> 
> Linux in a Professional way, and has significant money invested...
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Mutter absolutely ruins any decent graphical performance on either
> 
> system that i have been testing on. Even firefox4 has a severe
> 
> decrease in FPS in any sort of benchmarking. I usually get above 60
> 
> FPS, gnome-shell less than 30 FPS.... Now before you blame that on the
> 
> fact that i use  compositing in mutter or suggest that other
> 
> compositors would cause the same issue - Compiz++ (0.9.4) ~ has little
> 
> to no impact on performance. - Not on FireFox, Maya, Cinelerra or any
> 
> other application. mutter seems to be by far the WORST compositor for
> 
> linux, hands-down, even Cairo's is better.
> 
> 
> 
> as a side note, linux gamers have also been reporting very poor
> 
> graphical performance in Gnome-Shell too. none of this is a good
> 
> thing, if not for professional use and not for gaming (to major
> 
> players on any desktop, on any platform) What exactly is GnomeShell
> 
> Designed for then?!?!  Is the plan here for gnome-shell only
> 
> compatible with very basic desktop applications? where even Web
> 
> browsers will take a severe performance hit???
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Realtime audio applications - Gnome-Shell does NOT play nice with
> 
> Jackd on either of my systems.  In gnome2 - ZERO xruns, running
> 
> stable. the only exception would be the odd Wine VSTi, that causes
> 
> them - which is expected, usually on startup... in Gnome-Shell,  xruns
> 
> are frequent... and generally is a very buggy crappy experience.
> 
> Gnome3 also depends on Pulseaudio - bad move!  ~  PA while all good
> 
> and dandy, it often gets in the way of Jackd and many proaudio users
> 
> prefer a system to be "pulseaudio free", not only that but PA these
> 
> dayz doesn't actually work with some audio interfaces supported in the
> 
> linux kernel, as is the case with the ICE chipsets - you used to be
> 
> able to hack it....   Requiring a user to have PA is a dumb idea, and
> 
> should not be required, at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Managing Windows/applications - I do like some of Gnome-Shell's new
> 
> style and way of doing things... to some degree. but, Gnome3/Shell
> 
> touts itself as being a better interface for touch interfaces and
> 
> tablets - i am actually finding this to NOT be the case. Managing
> 
> applications and navigation is often slower than gnome2, and as a side
> 
> note, navigating through gnome-shell actually causes some xruns on my
> 
> system. Back not too long ago, the old Compiz, may have done the same
> 
> thing. But now compiz+ does not, nor does Cairo's compositing window
> 
> manager...
> 
> 
> 
> this leads me to believe there is something seriously wrong in how
> 
> mutter is implemented. not good.
> 
> 
> 
> it has been said in the gnome3 FAQ - that gnome2 will be supported by
> 
> distro's for years to come. maybe this is true in some distributions,
> 
> like Ubuntu LTS or Fedora.
> 
> In other Distributions this will not be the case. So many gnome-users
> 
> are now being faced with having to switch entirely  
> be the case if gnome-developers had plans of maintaining and putting
> 
> energy into the Gnome3 "fallback" mode, but this doesn't seem to be
> 
> case.
> 
> 
> 
> Why isn't it important to Gnome to also keep a stable 2d
> 
> environment??? (no-compositing) - even Ubuntu plans to maintain a 2d
> 
> version of Unity.
> 
> 
> 
> It really seems to me, the designers/developers of Gnome3/Gnome-Shell
> 
> never really considered how some people actually use their
> 
> gnome-desktop. Especially in the case of people using "higher-end"
> 
> applications with Linux, rather than just "general desktop usage"....
> 
> 
> 
> **** i'd like to hear some other people's experiences, using gnome3
> 
> for more "serious applications" and the pro-s and con's as such.
> 
>       im not trying to start a flame war, im curious.  ****
> 
> 
> 
> I just feel that i have valid concerns about the future of gnome (on
> 
> my computers, anyway). i obviously realize gnome3 is still young, and
> 
> slightly buggy, but at this point - it has been pushed out the door &
> 
> officially released - so i would have expected a slightly more stable,
> 
> decent environment - that doesn't totally make almost every
> 
> application either A: useless or B: have serious performance
> 
> regressions.... :(
> 
> 
> 
> ...it's really sad stuff, im just glad it's only in a test environment :)
> 
> 
> 
> (and if it continues this way, i am glad some WM's still give their
> 
> users choices)
> 
> 
> 
> jordan
> 
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