GNOME.org
 

Re: [Gimp-user] gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18

I agree with improving functionality. We do we meed to do to bring up developement to the level of Blender 
3D? Gimp needs a unified transform tool. Focus should better image handeling and faster tool based methods 
for artist.

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: gimp-user-list <gimp-user-list-bounces gnome org> on behalf of gimp-user-list-request gnome org 
<gimp-user-list-request gnome org>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2017 12:07:06 AM
To: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18

Send gimp-user-list mailing list submissions to
        gimp-user-list gnome org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        gimp-user-list-request gnome org

You can reach the person managing the list at
        gimp-user-list-owner gnome org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of gimp-user-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Rick Strong)
   2. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Maurizio Paglia)
   3. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
      (Alexandre Prokoudine)
   4. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Rick Strong)
   5. Re:  GIMP name, icon and general graphic look (Ross Martinek)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:59:02 -0400
From: "Rick Strong" <rnstrong primus ca>
To: "Maurizio Paglia" <mpaglia0 gmail com>,     <gimp-user-list gnome org>
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
Message-ID: <7F90A1E43E5A44C487E26B56C7F69018@RickPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
        reply-type=original

"I am asking instead to the many enthusiast of GIMP that (I suppose) have
more
graphic capabilities than developers."

I am a graphic designer and I disagree with your premise that GIMP needs a
revamp to its "look". The world is full of products that have a great
"look"or are even "sexy" but don't deliver. GIMP delivers. I want software
that works and is stable.

? What is of far greater importance, IMHO, is functionality. Does it work as
advertised? Yes.
? Does it install easily? Is it stable? Critical to being accepted.
? Is the interface well-designed (absolutely critical for usability)? Mostly
(v 2.8).
? Does it have a good manual/help system? Yes, once you get used to it.
? Can the manual be better? Yes.
? Can the appearance of the GUI be changed to suit the user? In other words
does it have an option to get rid of that gawd-awful flat black livery.
Hopefully.

Cosmetic changes are a waste of time.
Focus on functionality and the GUI.

Rick S.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maurizio Paglia
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 6:51 AM
To: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

...
I am not asking the developers to carry on this task, they have to invest
their time in coding and make GIMP more and more valid.
I am asking instead to the many enthusiast of GIMP that (I suppose) have
more
graphic capabilities than developers.

...
Thank you,
Maurizio
_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-user-list gnome org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 19:46:28 +0200
From: Maurizio Paglia <mpaglia0 gmail com>
To: Rick Strong <rnstrong primus ca>
Cc: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
Message-ID:
        <CAPdO9EX1yLHHmwEaQhyEJ_qc4z4Vrck_EJx0a=Sm+c+9QSKJKA mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Thank you Rick for your valuable opinion!

Maurizio

Il 21 ott 2017 17:59, "Rick Strong" <rnstrong primus ca> ha scritto:


"I am asking instead to the many enthusiast of GIMP that (I suppose) have
more
graphic capabilities than developers."

I am a graphic designer and I disagree with your premise that GIMP needs a
revamp to its "look". The world is full of products that have a great
"look"or are even "sexy" but don't deliver. GIMP delivers. I want software
that works and is stable.

? What is of far greater importance, IMHO, is functionality. Does it work
as advertised? Yes.
? Does it install easily? Is it stable? Critical to being accepted.
? Is the interface well-designed (absolutely critical for usability)?
Mostly (v 2.8).
? Does it have a good manual/help system? Yes, once you get used to it.
? Can the manual be better? Yes.
? Can the appearance of the GUI be changed to suit the user? In other
words does it have an option to get rid of that gawd-awful flat black
livery. Hopefully.

Cosmetic changes are a waste of time.
Focus on functionality and the GUI.

Rick S.

-----Original Message----- From: Maurizio Paglia
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 6:51 AM
To: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

...
I am not asking the developers to carry on this task, they have to invest
their time in coding and make GIMP more and more valid.
I am asking instead to the many enthusiast of GIMP that (I suppose) have
more
graphic capabilities than developers.

...
Thank you,
Maurizio
_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-user-list gnome org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 02:38:37 +0300
From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre prokoudine gmail com>
To: "gimp-user-list gnome org" <gimp-user-list gnome org>
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
Message-ID:
        <CAFjkzc27orG9VwTxb28SOXPvf4Y0im7XdS69CK9=H5voHGftzw mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Rick Strong wrote:


? What is of far greater importance, IMHO, is functionality. Does it work as
advertised? Yes.
? Does it install easily? Is it stable? Critical to being accepted.
? Is the interface well-designed (absolutely critical for usability)? Mostly
(v 2.8).
? Does it have a good manual/help system? Yes, once you get used to it.
? Can the manual be better? Yes.
? Can the appearance of the GUI be changed to suit the user? In other words
does it have an option to get rid of that gawd-awful flat black livery.
Hopefully.

Cosmetic changes are a waste of time.


I think, by now we have established that developers don't do visuals.
So waste of whose time, Rick?

Alex


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:10:39 -0400
From: "Rick Strong" <rnstrong primus ca>
To: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <alexandre prokoudine gmail com>,
        <gimp-user-list gnome org>
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
Message-ID: <187BAB647E4148B1916AA5BC9EFA14A0@RickPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
        reply-type=original

Whoever does them.

Rick S.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Prokoudine
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 7:38 PM
To: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Rick Strong wrote:


? What is of far greater importance, IMHO, is functionality. Does it work
as
advertised? Yes.
? Does it install easily? Is it stable? Critical to being accepted.
? Is the interface well-designed (absolutely critical for usability)?
Mostly
(v 2.8).
? Does it have a good manual/help system? Yes, once you get used to it.
? Can the manual be better? Yes.
? Can the appearance of the GUI be changed to suit the user? In other
words
does it have an option to get rid of that gawd-awful flat black livery.
Hopefully.

Cosmetic changes are a waste of time.


I think, by now we have established that developers don't do visuals.
So waste of whose time, Rick?

Alex
_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-user-list gnome org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 22:27:12 -0500
From: Ross Martinek <triarius12 gmail com>
To: Maurizio Paglia <mpaglia0 gmail com>
Cc: gimp-user-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP name, icon and general graphic look
Message-ID: <8886985A-720D-4498-8ED4-375384CE3A67 gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

Comments in-line.

Ross



On Oct 21, 2017, at 5:51 AM, Maurizio Paglia <mpaglia0 gmail com> wrote:

In data venerd? 20 ottobre 2017 19:28:03 CEST, Alexandre Prokoudine ha
scritto:

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Ross Martinek wrote:

Okay, please forgive me if I get a little acerbic, but I?ve spent most of
my life fighting those who think appearance is more important than it is.
Appearance is, at best, completely, utterly, secondary to everything.

Function, on the other hand, is absolutely vital?to everything. When I
meet
someone who says they aren?t good looking, I tell them ?Real beauty is on
the inside, it comes from within. The outside is mere window dressing.?

So asking developers of some of the best graphics software to spend time
thinking about appearance, other than the user interface, is a complete,
utter waste of their time.


Wow, hold on :) I respectfully disagree.

First of all, we do care about the appearance of GIMP. In fact, we can
be extremely opinionated about its appearance. Not that it was
entirely in our power to make great illustrations and suchlike (with
few exceptions).

Secondly, this is a users mailing list. The idea is that people who
lurk here are of artistic persuasion :) That makes it a good enough
place to discuss this to _me_.


Worried about ?branding?? GIMP is free. It is ?sold? because it works, and
works very well. Its beauty comes from within. It doesn?t need a flashy ad
campaign. It doesn?t need to look professional?it is professional and
anyone who looks past the exterior knows it.


uncapable software + bad visuals = no go

uncapable software + good visuals = might work, but not for long

capable software + bad visuals = underestimated by potential users

capable software + good visuals = world domination proceeds as planned

What's so bad about good visuals then? Yeah, in-house VFX apps can be
ugly as sin while doing the job, but that's hardly something to brag
about, no?

The project could do with some visual refreshing (somewhat covered in
upcoming 2.10). The nature and the scope of the refresh is a perfectly
sensible topic to discuss, in my opinion.

Alex
_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-user-list gnome org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list


Thank you all guys, now the discussion starts to be very interesting.

My first idea (but it is better to call it 'proposal') was absolutely not
intended to kill GIMP in any way!
I simply think GIMP has something we could change in order to make it more
appealing.

(@ Ross - I agree with you about beauty but - here - I am speaking about to be
more appealing, more sexy, not more beautiful.
A beauty software is not useful, a 'nice to see' software will attract more
users).

I means if we carry on some good maquillage we can help GIMP to reach new
users, more users means (hopefully) more brainstorming and partecipation and,
why not, more developer.
GIMP 2.8 was released in 2012: now we are at the end of 2017 and we still do
not know when GIMP 2.10 will be released.
In software play 5 years are not a long time: this is an era!
If you are a GIMP enthusiast you think 'developer are doing a very hard work
in order to introduce GEGL, port software to a newer Gtk version, etc. etc.'
If you are a normal user you think 'GIMP is dead?.


I disagree completely. I am a ?normal? user, and I do not think GIMP is dead. Quite the contrary. Adobe 
Photoshop is dead to the normal, or average, user. The only people using PS are either corporately supported 
or students?no one else can afford it. (Hence my earlier remark about ?real? artists.) Where are the ?have 
nots? going? To GIMP. I know several successful artists who have abandoned PS for GIMP, and I?m aware of many 
more. I did two lectures on a particular aspect of fantasy art last March. Of those attending, two used PS 
because their employers paid for it. Of the rest, about five used GIMP. Everyone else wanted to know where to 
get it, and one PS user said he was going to recommend it to his employer.


To have more users you need more releases, to have more releases you [also]
need more developers, more ideas, more brainstorming users.
The easiest way to have more users is an attractive look, a little more
marketing (marketing or propaganda are not evil!)


Propaganda is definitely evil: ?Propaganda: chiefly derogatory, information, especially of a biased or 
misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause, or point of view.? By your 
associating marketing with propaganda, marketing is therefore evil. Personally, I tend to agree, at least 
about the current fashion in marketing. >}:-{D>


and I think GIMP can [have
to] improve also on the look side.


You must work for Apple. Simply not true unless you are marketing to iDiots who know nothing except iWant the 
latest. Software development isn?t about fashion, or the latest ?look? ?especially if the software is free. 
Because GIMP is free, its merits are its only other ?selling? points.



You all love Wilber? OK, keep it but think to a more modern/stylized Wilber to
be used as icon.
Google for 'Wilbur' and you see dozens of different images (for this reason I
think Wilbur is a mascot and not a logo), now Google for 'NIKE'.
This is a logo: easy to remember, drawable in any size/colour.

I am not asking the developers to carry on this task, they have to invest
their time in coding and make GIMP more and more valid.


GIMP is already valid. Either something is valid or it isn?t, there is no such thing as ?half valid."


I am asking instead to the many enthusiast of GIMP that (I suppose) have more
graphic capabilities than developers.

Will GIMP 2.10 be a great step ahead?
Tell it to the whole world!


I get the distinct impression from what you say and how you say it that you work in marketing. I don?t think 
marketing is needed here, at least not the kind you propose. No one is selling GIMP, at least not legally. 
Making it look ?sexy? will not garner more users. Making and keeping it functional, by itself, will do so. If 
there is anything GIMP needs, it?s more word-of-mouth (or electronic media) ?advertising.?

You can?t ?tell the whole world,? but you can tell everyone you know, even if they don?t use such software. 
Someone they know might lament the state (EXPENSE) of Adobe and PS, at which point your non-artistic 
acquaintance says ?Have you tried GIMP? Its free and <insert your name here> loves it!? Been there, done 
that. Have yet to hear anyone say, ?Nah, I?ll stick with Photoshop.? I have had near strangers thank me a 
year later for the recommendation.



Thank you,
Maurizio
_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-user-list gnome org
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list




------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
gimp-user-list mailing list
gimp-user-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list


------------------------------

End of gimp-user-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 18
**********************************************
[Date Prev][Date Next]   [Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Thread Index] [Date Index] [Author Index]