Re: When a photographer uses eog -- some observations

[DigiSus <info digisus info>]

Hi Felix! Thanks for your answers. Here are mine... :-)

Felix Riemann wrote:
> The dialog should only come up if you use the keyboard, as its intention
> is IIRC to avoid image deletion by accidentially hitting a key. The
> checkbox would opposite that, but I guess we could talk about that if
> necessary. Maybe just as a session-wide property, so the dialog comes
> back the next session?

Yes, sure. Reading your answer, I had an idea for a nice solution: How 
about putting a small tickbox into the deletion confirmation dialog 
saying "[X] Do not ask me for confirmation again during this session."
Thus, the dialog always pops up when the user hits delete the first time 
in a session, but he can always choose for the rest of the session.

I filed a FtReq: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543158

> > 2) Going to next/prev image. I read that the mouse wheel for going 
> > next/prev was removed, but I do not know why and whether it is possible 
> > to get it back. It would be very helpful.
> This was taken out as it was a bit buggy [1] and was seen as a usability
> issue [2].
>
> [1]: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=333595
> [2]: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331645

Hm. Slow disks can be an issue. My photos are 4.5MB and I feel the delay 
from one to the next although my PC is 1y old. Some kind of image 
pre-fetching would be a good thing!

I am not sure whether the 2nd bug report is partly a misunderstanding. 
Vincent asked for wheel-scrolling on the collection view which Wouter 
smashed as usability disaster -- and I agree. But having wheel-scrolling 
as a way to go to the next/prev image (in F11 mode) still makes sense 
and is used in other viewers as well. BTW: Zooming does not have to go, 
but zoom with Ctrl-mousewheel or something.

I think that discussion deserves to be reopened...


> > Another elegant and visually appealing way could be: When the mouse 
> > touches the right or left border of the screen (in F11 mode), the 
> > next/prev photo is shown.
> Now, this sounds indeed interesting. Beforehand we would have to
> implement image loading feedback in fullscreen [3] and then need to
> decide how this should work if sidebar or collection are at the side of
> the screen, though. You should probably create a feature request in our
> Bugzilla for this as it could get lost otherwise.

I did: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543161

> [3]: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340743
I added a comment.


> > 3) In F11 mode, I can zoom in/out of a photo or see it in 1:1 or 
> > windows-fit size. Unfortunately, this setting is not remembered when I 
> > go the next/prev photo. So, I have to zoom again... Maybe, make it a 
> > preference tickbox to remember zoom setting or not.
> Yes, I think there is already a feature request for this in our
> Bugzilla. Could be doable I guess.

Found it: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311297
Oops, it is quite old (2005)... I added a comment.


> > 4) The image collection pane and EXIF information are essential features 
> > for this work and I am glad eog provides them. But the properties/EXIF 
> > window takes too muich screen space which I need for the image. And it 
> > is overloaded/confusing. Could something similar to the Ctrl-i feature 
> > from gthumbs be implemented that shows the image/EXIF information in a 
> > small box -while- in F11 mode? I put the properties button in the icon 
> > bar but it does not show during F11. This way, I see no way to see EXIF 
> > data during F11 mode...?
> >
> > 5) As to the EXIF information itself: There is no need to write down all 
> > the words "aperture value", "exposure time", etc. because the values 
> > (f/3.2 or 1/125) speak for themselves.
> >
> > Here is a use case proposal to think about: When the user presses "i" in 
...

> I am not sure if this is possible with the way the current image viewing
> widget works. Generally this sounds/looks pretty nice. If possible one
> could leave the actual layout of the two lines up to the user.

It must be possible somehow because gthumbs is doing sth. similar. 
There, in full-view mode, you get a small info-box with Ctrl-i.

I added it to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=540685

> > BTW: The value currently given as "Focal length" is not what 
> > photographers expect to see. They need the value in [mm] given under 
> > Details|Camera|FocalLenghtIn35mmFilm.
> Looks like this got lost during the sidepane->dialog conversion:
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=313676#c18

I files a new bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=543175


> > 6) Judging photos has a lot to do with aestethics. It would be helpful 
> > if eog would support that by being in the background as much as possible.
> > Good start: In F11 mode, the background around the photo is black. But 
> > the image collection bar is system grey as is the top icon bar.
> > - Could the pane have black background as well around the thumbnails, so 
> > that only the thumbnails are visible?
>
> I'm not sure if this is currently supported by the GtkIconView widget.

Oh, that would be a pity. Could someone check this?


> > 7) Often, adjacent photos need to be compared. Could a 2-up or even 4-up 
> > view in F11 mode be implemented that show 2 simultanesouly next to each 
> > other or even 4 in the four quadrants of the screen? (Next/prev would 
> > then mean moving 2 or 4 photos at once.)
> Currently not, as EOG is primarily written to show one image at a time
> (in one window). Especially the image displaying widget will get in your
> way here. Although, one could probably implement this as a plugin (using
> it's own displaying widget). 

I see. Hm, then it will not be possible to suggest some kind of 
"lightroom" mode in which a user can compare different photos in an easy 
manner?


> > 8) Having a GUI preference to choose where the collection pane should be 

> We actually had this for a few releases during the 2.19/2.20 development
> cycle. But the functionality itself was not fully bug free. For example
> the toolbar could overlay the collection in fullscreen. So, the
> preferences GUI elements were taken out again before the 2.20 stable
> release. Nonetheless you can still move the collection "inofficially" by
> modifying the /apps/eog/ui/image_collection_position GConf key.

Ok. It is not a big deal for me, usually I prefer the horizontal 
thumbnail bar, but it would be good if it could be made smaller because 
when comparing photos I do not need to see stuff on the thmumbnail, I 
just need to recognize it. Perhaps a normal size and a small size 
thumbnail pane variant?


> > 9a) Could we have a smoother scrolling in the image collection pane? 
> > Perhaps it could be done with the mouse hovering over the pane? Moving 
> > far to the right scrolls fast forward, more to the middle scrolls 
> > slower. (think iPod scrolling...)
> I'm not sure I fully understand how you're trying to scroll here (not an
> iPod user).

Oh, I am also not an iPod user. Would never buy such a closed thing. ;) 
Anyway, imagine: You are in F11 mode and have the thumbnails at the 
bottom. There you only want to do two things: click on a thumbnail to 
see it large or browse through the thumbnails (without the full-screen 
photo changing yet).

The browsing could be done elegantly without a click, but only by mouse 
positioning. If the mouse is in the middle of the collection pane 
nothing happens. Now you start hovering the mouse across the thumbnails 
to the right... and the thumbnails start scrolling. Scrolling becomes 
faster (slower) the more you move to the right border of the monitor 
(back to the middle).


> > 9b) slideshow. To have it look professional (e.g., when showing photos 
> > to a larger audience with music in the background, etc.) it would be 
> > nice to have fading between the photos, in 3 variants: Fade via black, 
> > fade via white, fade directly into next photo.
> I don't know if the current image viewing widget (yes, once again) is
> powerful enough for this. It might be worth keeping an eye on the
> experiments Claudio is currently doing with a possible replacement using
> the Clutter library.[5]
> [5]: http://www.gnome.org/~csaavedra/news-2008-05.html#D05

Claudio is clicking on thumbnails. That is not a slideshow I think.
Besides, I would prefer the easy scrolling method over the larger 
preview of thumbnails without clicking. As I explained above: Thumbnails 
are just that.

Hm, perhaps it could make sense to think about two modes in general for 
using eog. A easy/occasional user mode with a very simple (limited) 
interface, he just wants to look at the photos delete some, no interest 
in EXIF, no fancy photo comparisons, etc. And the amateur photographer 
who needs EXIF information, wants to compare photos somehow, needs 
efficient navigation and deleting/moving functionality. What do you 
think, could this make sense?

And finally, thank to all of you for providing eog to us!
Marcus :-)