Re: resizing with gravity

[Bradley T Hughes <bhughes trolltech com>]

On Wednesday 26 April 2006 23:42, Sasha Vasko wrote:
> Russell Shaw wrote:
> > Sasha Vasko wrote:
> >
> > An X app might open a grid of top-level windows, and rearrange them
> > as more windows are added or removed.
>
> No application should ever rely on being able to do that.

I completely disagree with this statement. Applications *should* be able to 
rely cooperating with the window manager when placing windows in a grid or 
some other arrangement on the screen. SDI style apps like the GIMP and those 
found on Mac OS X would be cumbersome to use (at best) without some kind of 
app<->wm cooperation about how and where multiple toplevel windows should be 
placed.

> > Such apps may exist primarily for embedded systems without a window
> > manager, but it is still useful to be able to use those apps where
> > a WM is running. In that case, the WM must have a policy setting that
> > allows the app to run as designed, or in a semi-managed way.
>
> Yes, that is what I'm saying - user (via window manager configuration)
> determines how windows are placed. Not the client application.

Requiring the *user* to configure the wm on how to place every single toplevel 
window the app opens is unacceptable. The application knows best how various 
toplevel windows relate to each other and it should be easy to allow the app 
to provide acceptable defaults for the user. If the wm makes this impossible, 
then the wm is broken.

> > Window managers exist solely for the purpose of the *user* to specify
> > how top-level windows should be managed.

I'm not going to comment on this one, I'll get flamed badly :)

> > This is why users and developers doing non-trivial stuff find GUI on
> > linux crap compared to some proprietory systems.

Indeed. We get bit by this all the time. Things that are trivial on Windows 
and Mac OS X are difficult and often impossible to do on X11 because of the 
"the WM knows best" mentality.

> > The proper way to do this stuff is to have it easy to understand
> > (adequate documentation and help systems), and have every parameter
> > easily configurable
> > by all users.
>
> Yes, and it is done in the Window Manager's configuration in order to
> enforce uniform policy on all clients. Clients messing around with
> placement is exactly the anarchy that you complain about.

Wrong. If you force every client into submission, sooner or later they will 
revolt (just like in any dictatorship). App programmers get frustrated 
because their apps don't work the way they want; users get frustrated because 
the apps the want to use don't work the way they expect. This is the issue at 
hand.

-- 
Bradley T. Hughes - bhughes at trolltech.com
Trolltech AS - Sandakervn. 116, P.O. Box 4332 Nydalen, 0402 Oslo, Norway