Re: Proposal for ConfigureRequest handling

[Dominik Vogt <dominik vogt gmx de>]

On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 04:00:52PM +0200, Marko Macek wrote:
> 
> > > Dominik's proposal allows for "fixes" to old (non ICCCM compliant wm)
> > > without modifying the actual WM (can be done by an external program).
> > 
> > Hm, right.  That's not a generic solution, but it could be used to
> > cope with WMs that don't care about the issue or are no longer
> > being developed.
> > 
> > > But I'd
> > > rather that ICCCM compliance was fixed, ... I'd rather see that all apps
> > using
> > > wmspec hints would require this to be ICCCM compliant anyway (at least
> > when WM
> > > claims to be, the existance of _NET_SUPPORTED should guarantee that).
> > 
> > In other words:  Demand that all applications and WMs are
> > ICCCM/EWMH compliant and discontinue support for all that are not
> > and at the same time?  That rules out most existing applications
> > and probably the majority of window managers too.
> 
> No. What I'm saying that if a window manager supports NETWM hints, it should
> MUST comply with this ICCCM rule about window positioning (at least for
> NETWM compliant applications).

Okay, how does the WM find out if an app is NETWM compliant?  The
application could set a property indicating this on its top level
windows.  That may be the better solution since it takes the
workload off the app programmers and lets the window manager
handle it.  On one hand it's much easier to do that in the WM
(because it knows the size of the decorations) and on the other
hand it's less error prone in the applications.

> We might use your proposed root window property instead of implicit
> dependance on _NET_SUPPORTED...
> 
> We could also say that if application supports NETWM hints (TODO: how this
> is determined? check for NET_WM_PING on WM_PROTOCOLS? AFAIK there is no hint
> that an app must always set in current specification),  it must use the ICCCM
> compliant window positioning when used with a NETWM compliant window manager.
> 
> In the gray area, various hacks are allowed/possible. I plan to add an
> option (per WM_CLASS) in icewm to use always use "static" gravity placement. For
> this it I will need a list of broken apps.

The fvwm mailing list archive has a lot of information about such
applications, but I can't think of a good search word.

> > Hm, perhaps this could be done via the initial_state.  Set this to
> > "withdrawn" and the WM sets up the window as usual, but does not
> > map the frame itself.  The client would notice that it was
> > reparented and could look up the frame size and its position.  It
> > would then ask to map the window manually and the WM maps the
> > frame.
> 
> Maybe. Is this a standard thing?

No.  There is no "Withdrawn" initial state yet.  It would be
another extension to the ICCCM.  Perhaps "Hidden" is a better
name.  Instead of listening for reparenting the app might want to
wait for a synthetical Expose event to indicate the WM is done
decorating the window.

Bye

Dominik ^_^  ^_^

 --
Dominik Vogt, mail: dominik vogt schlund de, phone: 0721/91374-382
Schlund + Partner AG, Erbprinzenstr. 4-12, D-76133 Karlsruhe