Re: Removing wm/pager interaction

[Matthias Ettrich <ettrich trolltech com>]

Am Mon, 19 Jun 2000 schrieb Sasha_Vasko@osca.state.mo.us:
> <snip>
> >So yes, the hints are indeed very important for many desktops. Luckily we
> >agreed on them long time ago and luckily the end-users will be able to use
> >tools like "kicker" with any window manager they want in the future.
> 
> Unluckily there is a sufficient amount of problems with agreed specs:
> 1) INSERT/DELETE DESKTOP message has no defined behaviour in specs, and
> either
> way to define it you'll get into other problems.

I disagree. Those hints are totally independent.
> 
> 2) Desktop naming and numbering is too inflexible and shortsighted

Nothing that can be fixed later. The current scheme is, as you pointed out, so
simple that it's no problem whatsoever to support it as a subset for
compatibility in any later version of the spec or windowmangers that implement
it. 

> 
> 3) several hints are designed to provide clients with means to do things,
> that
> should not be allowed, thus creating possiblity for conflicts of interests
> and configuration between WM and client.

There is no conflict of interests between the WM and clients. Ultimately it
boils down to what the *user* wants. If users want to run a CD or MP3 player
that provides a "stays on top" checkbox in the application menu, for sure they
want to be able to use this checkbox.  This is basic functionality of a window
sytem, there's really no reason to prevent a client from requesting this state.

> 
> Fact that it is implemented somewhere does not right the wrong. It will
> only lead to the situation where these specs will have to be reviewed in
> future.

Yeah, better have nothing common than something that isn't 100% perfect. Do we
want to improve X11 interoperability or not?  If that's not your goal, just let
those who agree work on the task. 

The spec is defined in a way that everybody can choose to implement only the
subset he or she likes. It's not necessary to have a 100% equality among all
window managers, every small step we can reach is an advantage. 

Matthias