Re: Open to discussion...

[Matthias Clasen <clasen pong mathematik uni-freiburg de>]

> > > And the documentation for any given WM
> > > could be a text file, HTML, or even a custom help-file format intended
> > > only for use with that WM.  
> > 
> > Like with every other software. 
> 
> 	Not with every other software.  Only with non-Gnome software.  If
> a user is using the Gnome desktop with Gnome applications, he will have a
> consistent help-system user interface within all applications.
> 
> > Why is this a problem ?
> 
> 	Because the end-user, whose only computing experience might be a
> Mac or Win9x, will not know where to look for the WM documentation
> (physically on the hard drive), won't know how to view it, and will be
> confused when they use the Gnome help browser to search the index and
> nothing comes up.

Doesn't the Gnome help browser grok html and man pages ? That should cover
the documentation of most wms, I guess. Excluding of cause the enlightenment
idea of documentation.

> 
> > Don't confuse multiple desks with pagers. Gnome very much needs wms to 
> > provide multiple desks. The pager is only a GUI on top of this basic
> > functionality.  
> 
> 	Yes, I need someone to clarify that part explicitly, thank you.
> Also, in some WMs there is a different between a "Desk" and a "Workspace",
> which only further confuses the issue.  Work needs to be done here.
> 

This is what the fvwm FAQ has to say on the issue:

6.1  What exactly is the difference between a DESK, a PAGE, and the
     SCREEN?

A: Our naming convention is sometimes a source of confusion, and when
   discussing problems and the like it's good to maintain a consistent
   meaning.  To illustrate how features of fvwm should be referred to
   - fvwm has multiple disjoint DESKTOPS, each of which is comprised
   of M by N PAGES, which are each the size of the physical SCREEN.
   The physical SCREEN acts as a viewport over one of the PAGES of the
   current DESK.  Here's a picture to clarify (also, take a look at
   the FvwmPager module):

             Desk 0                     Desk 1
     +----------+----------+    +----------+----------+
     |          |          |    |          |          |
     | Page 0 0 | Page 1 0 |    |          |          |
     |          |          |    |          |          |
     |          |          |    |          |          |
     +----------+----------+    +----------+----------+
     |+--------+|          |    |          |          |
     ||Page 0 1|| Page 1 1 |    |          |          |
     ||        ||          |    |          |          |
     |+--------+|          |    |          |          |
     +----------+----------+    +----------+----------+

   It shows two 2 x 2 DESKTOPS.  If the current DESK were number 0,
   and the current PAGE were 0 1, the SCREEN would show only the
   windows located there, plus any sticky ones.


> > > 	...that's about 90% of the code of AfterStep, WindowMaker, and
> > > Enlightenment.  
> > 
> > Sounds like fvwm is the perfect wm for you, as it does all of the above
> > with modules which you can choose not to start.
> 
> 	Yes, most of the functionality in AfterStep is done with modules
> and can be disabled, too--however, does fvwm or AfterStep have Gnome
> documentation?  Does it default to not creating minimized icons on the

See above. fvwm has a man page - which is a painful format for a ~50 page 
document, but the Gnome help browser should be able to read it. Maybe 
we should add links to the docs of the various wms from one of the main
Gnome docs ?

> desktop, and having all of the other modules disabled under Gnome?  Does

No, you are expected to add the necessary 2 lines to the config file 
manually.

> it have a Gtk+ based configuration utility, and does it read the Gnome

gedit .fvwm2rc :-)

> config files to determine things like what applications should appear on
> the program-lauching menu?

I would say that it would be best to not duplicate that program-launching
functionality in the wm at all. 
 
> 
> 	It'll be nice when I can change my background in one, intuitive
> place, and have it stay changed after I restart X.

The desktop-window idea should give you that for free, without any need
for wm cooperation.

-- 
Matthias Clasen, 
Tel. 0761/203-5606
Email: clasen@mathematik.uni-freiburg.de
Mathematisches Institut, Albert-Ludwigs-Universitaet Freiburg