Re: Sv: Window Manager configuration utilities

[Paul Warren <pdw ferret lmh ox ac uk>]

On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Nathan Clemons wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Paul Warren wrote:

> > What I am suggesting is that we shouldn't sacrifice the aim of a really
> > good, integrated desktop by going out of our way to allow support for wm's
> > that were written to be standalone window managers.  Gnome already has
> > many apps written specifically to work with Gnome, why should something as
> > crucial as window managers not be written specifically for the job?  If
> > that means a seperate distribution of E just for Gnome, then so be it.  
> 
> It's a nice thing to think that GNOME will have dedicated window
> managers. In my opinion, you know, that's great. But the idea that a WM
> should need to have to have a second distribution means to me that we are
> failing in our attempt here. 

No, it means that the Gnome ideal of use any Window Manger is just too
optimistic, or at least it comes at the cost of that lovely, integrated
feel.

> For WMs that want tight integration with some applications that the
> UI supports (like a WM that will work well with the whole drag and throw
> idea recently on gnome-devel) that's fine, but do not assume that everyone
> is really interested in going that far.

Yes, I think we are driving at two different things here.  A more general
spec for Window Managers that want to work under desktop environments - a
protocol to interact with pagers etc., but also I firmly believe that
there needs to be a more far-reaching Gnome compliance spec, so that those
wms that want to be properly integrated with Gnome.  

> > I am currently working on Mosquito, which is intended to be a Gnome window
> > manager written specifically for the job.  I suspect that when it, and
> > others like it, are ready, they will very quickly become the window
> > managers of choice over standalone managers.  

> I don't intend on abandoning my favorite window manager, and I bet others
> feel the same. 

I used to feel like that about Window Maker, and I spent a lot of time
contributing code to it.  But I dropped it at a days notice to use
something that fits better with Gnome, and I would change again without a
second thought if someone showed me a wm that *really* worked with Gnome
(and I know lots of other people who feel the same).

To the end user, the whole Gnome + window manager integrated looks very
sloppy and second rate, for example:

- Why do I have two conflicting places to change the desktop background?
- Why do I change all my settings in the GCC, but if I want to change
focus policy I have to edit some wierd file, or run some other config
utility?    
- If I want to change theme, I edit .gtkrc, or use GCC, but if I want to
change the title bar font, I use some other utility.  Why?

I'm sorry to keep ranting on about this, but I have seen so many people
unimpressed and confused by this that it really bugs me.

Paul