Re: [Usability] Default document formats

[michael chang <thenewme91 gmail com>]

On 9/22/05, usability-request gnome org <usability-request gnome org> wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:54:12 +0100
> From: Phil Bull <philbull gmail com>
> Subject: Re: [Usability] Default document formats
> To: Vidar Braut Haarr <vhaarr+usability gmail com>
> Cc: usability gnome org
> Message-ID: <1127404452 7346 20 camel localhost localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 13:50 +0200, Vidar Braut Haarr wrote:
>
> > > OOo throws up a warning dialog when you try to save in
> > > RTF or DOC, along the lines of "not all formatting may
> > > be saved", so perhaps a similar dialog for the OpenDoc
> > > format could be added to warn about MS Office
> > > compatibility. (The dialog in question is horrible,
> > > but that's another issue.)
> >
> > Which suggests that internally, OOo knows that some formatting might
> > be lost, and so it should just automatically select a document format
> > that will work, and not assume the user has a faintest idea what
> > "format", "RTF" or "OpenDocument" means.
>
> So why not present the format options differently? The default should
> definitely be an open format (for many reasons), but after that it might
> be useful to only provide a couple more, with descriptive, non-technical
> names. After that, an 'Advanced' option for people after an obscure
> format.

If this is the case, there should also be an option to make it display
the "Advanced" list all the time; e.g. a "Advanced" interface mode and
a "Novice" user mode.  But have you seen Office XP?  It doesn't even
consider such things; everything's just as much of a mess.  If you've
got a novice, you may as well be using Notepad, and saving plain text.

> Most format choosers are currently long lists in the format:
>
> <product name> <version> <format type> <extension>
> e.g. OpenOffice.org 1.0 Text Document (.sxw)
>
> How much of this does the user actually want to know? Plus, the fact

If you ever used Microsoft Word or Corel Wordperfect after 1995 or so,
(even to this very day) and exchanged documents, you'll realize that
they always listed the formats exactly this way.  Nothing has changed;
Microsoft Word does the same thing.  If we're aiming for
compatability, shouldn't our file types list look like theirs?  Anyone
between the ages of 5 and 55 that I know of that has even gone near a
computer will have to bug over this if they are even thinking of using
a different Word Processor;  Most often they'll just convert back to
the program everyone else is using anyways if they're novices.  Even
with Corel vs. Word users.

> that the lists are long makes it confusing for novices and time
> consuming for everyone else.
>
> All we really need for a word processor is:
>
> Normal Document (.sxw)
> Microsoft-compatible Document (.doc)
> Document Template (.stw)
> -----
> Other Document Types...
>
> 'Other Document Types...' would open a nice, searchable list of formats
> with short descriptions so people could find weird formats if they
> needed to.

Note that OOo has converted to the .odt (I think that's the extension)
(OASIS OpenDocument) Format...

And in this case:

Normal Document
Microsoft-Compatable
Corel-Compatable
Template
Old Openoffice Document
Old Openoffice Template
Old Staroffice Document
Old Staroffice Template

Not to mention that you have to worry about Excel and Powerpoint
equivilents in OOo.  Right now, I believe all the programs use similar
or the same open/save dialogs...

> > He's writing English and it should fit on a piece of A4 paper - does
> > he really need to concern himself any further?
>
> Because of the sheer number of formats out there at the moment,
> unfortunately yes. But I agree that it could be a whole lot easier for
> novice users. Clearly, some are just accepting the defaults and getting
> unexpected results.

S/he can always use a typewriter.  AFAIK, setting up a printer on
Linux in and of itself can be time-consuming and difficult, even when
you DO know how to use Linux.

Don't get me wrong, GNOME, Linux, and Openoffice (and Abiword) are all
awesome.  But I don't know what you're calling a "Novice" -- I've seen
a 3 year old know the differences between formats, and I've seen
anyone who needs a different format is often told that in advance, or
told to change the format and send again.  And then there's always the
fact that OO.o works on Windows, too.

--
~Mike
 - Just my two cents
 - No man is an island, and no man is unable.