Re: [gtk-list] Re: Gtk and the scripting languages of the world

[Sascha Ziemann <szi aibon ping de>]

Andy Tai wrote:

>> If you ask me, writing large, interactive programs in C sucks. 
>> There has to be something like Phython, or Perl, or Scheme, or maybe
>> even TCL.

> Please whatever you do, remember that there are lots of programmers
> who prefer to use C/C++ over any script languages for building GUI
> and large scale projects.   So your interface should not degrade the
> gtk's utility for low level programming and make it difficult for
> building advanced C++ toolkits on top of gtk.   We do not want gtk to
> become another Tk.

If GTK gets a general interface for all dynamic languages, it will be
not another Tk, even if it requires some specific changes, that may be a
bit inconvenient, if you write pure C programs, because Tk has no
interface but that to itself.

I think GTK is a good base, but I think it takes too long to write all
the GTK code. During my small experiments the code for the interface was
*much* bigger than the code for the real program. It has to be possible
to write a program with a few lines:

(define myprogram (make-application "Hello"))
(make-menubar myprogram '(("File" .....
(make-statusbar myprogram ....
(make-some-sort-of-gui ....

This has to be enough in order to write really efficiently gui programs.
And it would be nice to access all basic GTK features if you need them.
But many programs will not need them. If you take a look at Visual
Basic. There is no way to use really low level features. And 90% of all
VB programs don't use more widgets than those given by M$. And VB sells
fine, because there is a strong need for a tool that makes it possible
to create very fast simple guis. Linux or every other free UNIX will be
much more convenient if it would be possible to write during one
afternoon a graphical mount utility or a user editor. And this is only
possible with a high level language like Perl or Scheme. A editor for
the passwd file could be a 10 line program with such a high level
interface. But if you do it with pure C GTK you have to spend a full
week on such tools.

Sure there is a need of maximum flexibility and it would be fine to get
this maximum flexibility even in the high level interface. But those GUI
programs that need maximum flexibility are quite rare on Linux.

I installed a eMail server for a company here in Dortmund. It works
quite fine but I am no employee there and I can not administrate the
eMail server. So there is a need for a grahical tool to administrate the
POP3 accounts, because all people there did not hear anything about
Linux. They are pure Novell users. I have no time to spend a week or a
month on such a simple admin tool. But if it took me only a day with
Perl it would be great. Allthough the server works fine on a simple
486er I have to kick it, if I can not give the people a admin tool for
the POP3 users. And before I spend a whole week or longer on GTK and C,
I will sell them a Microsoft Exchange server.

-- bis später...
 - Sascha         ---<~>=( http://www.ping.de/sites/aibon/ )=<~>---

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