Re: [pygtk] Installation problems win32

[Christian Robottom Reis <kiko async com br>]

On Wed, Jun 16, 2004 at 08:00:50AM -0500, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "Cedric" == Cedric Gustin <cedric gustin swing be> writes:
> 
>     Cedric> I suppose you mean
>     Cedric> http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.002.htp
> 
> Yes, this is the one that mean is too complicated - I had written one
> that was much simpler.  For example, point 2 in the link above starts
> off with

I merged both into the current installation FAQ, but I suppose this
deserves some explanation as it may appear I've complicated things
unnecessarily. I've done all this given the rationale in this email, but
I'd be happy to revert or improve things further if someone has a
reasonable solution.

> 2. From [www.gimp.org] get the recommended versions of the following packages:
> 
>     * libintl
>     * glib
>     * gtk+
>     * atk
>     * pango
> 
>    etc...
> 
> This is going to blow 85% of the potential users out of the water.
> For my users, who are installing matplotlib, they just want to get in
> and get out, and the typical user is much happier with a guide that
> says "run these two installers and set this path" than the treatises
> which appear in the FAQ.

I've merged the entries based on two issues:

    a) Having two FAQs that cover the same issue is silly. If we want to
       have a simplified FAQ then we should make 21.2 straightforward;
       no point in having a complicated FAQ for people who want
       complications and another one for people who want to get things
       done. Obviously, everybody wants installation to be easy.

       However, given point b) below, I don't see how installation *can*
       be easy at this time.

    b) The Dropline installer is dead. It will not be updated anymore,
       and given this I considered it important to ensure that the FAQ
       stays up to date and doesn't refer to deprecated packages. As
       Todd has written:

           2004-05-18 - Development has Ceased

           After carefully thinking, I believe that it is best to cease
           development of this particular GTK+ Runtime Environment. Due
           to the sheer number of different GTK+ installation systems
           and the consistent lack of compatibility between them, this
           project is doing more harm than good. I suggest users instead
           download the GTK+ libraries Tor Lillqvist builds ands hosts
           at www.gimp.org/win32. As the leading Win32 GTK+ developer,
           he is in the best position to release compiled binaries, and
           users will have the fewest head-aches by sticking with his
           packages. Also, my own interest in this project has waned as
           I've moved away from splitting Win32 and GNU/Linux
           development to working solely on Linux systems. As such, I
           feel I am no longer a competent maintainer, since I so rarely
           have the need to use GTK+ on a Windows machine.

           The SourceForge site for this project has been orphaned; if
           another developer wishes to take it under his or her wing, I
           would suggest they first talk to the other GTK+ packagers and
           attempt to get everyone to agree on packaging standards so as
           to not confuse users with incompatible GTK+ installers.

       Given that *the maintainer* has suggested we stop using his
       package, and given that it's orphaned, I see no medium-term
       solution apart from reverting instructions to use the "official"
       win32 packages.

>     Cedric> As a side note, I'm getting tired of these various,
>     Cedric> unofficial and incompatible (registry-wise) installers,
>     Cedric> and the installation questions/problems they generate. I
>     Cedric> don't think it helps in spreading the use of GTK+ on
>     Cedric> win32.
> 
> Which ones?  Do you count the dropline in this batch?  Is there an
> "official" installer?  I have installed dropline + pygtk on at least
> 30 windows computers including 98, 2000, NT, ME and XP, and the only
> problems I have ever had are occasionally dealing with some lingering
> dlls that previous installs of glade etc left in the system path.

There is no official installer, and this is the sorry state of GTK+'s
win32 distribution: a toolkit that works well on the platform, but which
fumbles because there isn't a simple way to install it.

I was also disappointed in having Dropline cease to be distributed,
because it's obviously better to have a single installer than 10
packages.  However, Dropline 2.2.4-3 has outstanding bugs (see Cédric's
messages on libglade to the list) and being unmaintained means others
will pop up and remain unfixed. 

What I want to hear at this point is somebody coming up and saying "I
want to ensure we have a simple win32 distribution" and work with Tor to
make that happen. But are there any takers?

Take care,
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 261 2331